Gaming Hielor's Minecraft Server

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I was wondering if anyone had a shears with silk touch or some actual cobwebs laying around that I could use? If the former, could I borrow it for the day? Promise to return it in good condition. :)
I've finally obtained today a Silk Touch book (along with 2 and a half of double chests of other enchanted books since I started enchanting them, and that's why I will be opening a bookshop :p). I haven't enchanted the shears with it yet, but I can borrow if you still need it.

Ultimately, the shears will be enchanted additionally with Unbreaking and Efficiency, too.
 

Arrowstar

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btw you might want to play a lot more with materials, and go to wikipedia and search for philosophies of architecture and styles to refer to.

Grand architecture has always eluded me. I can go searching through Wikipedia, but most of the time design ideas either hit me when I'm building or not at all. I'm open to more specific suggestions that would improve the appeal of the building. I'd like to keep the pentagon shape (if only because I sat down and learned how to construct one in real life and then transfered that to Minecraft :thumbup:), but other characteristics of the building are very malleable. Also, it occurs to me that I don't have windows in yet, so expect that the final product will have lots of glass in it as well. :)

Orb: Thanks, I'll ask next time I see you on. :)
 

Gerdih

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Yeah I propose to add generous windows. Except the engineer and physics faculty, they have to be on a cave slaved by living books with whips.
 

Eccentrus

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and I suggest that you make the pillars taller, tappered off by upside down brick stairs, so that it doesn't look so monotonic.
 

Arrowstar

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Could you maybe demonstrate what you mean, Eccentrus?

Also, Gerdih, how does your treefarm work? I'd like to collect some wood for fuel...
 

Gerdih

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It works nice now, I dont know if I will be able to say it after the update so take the maximum profit now.
 

Arrowstar

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Great, but how do I use it? What are the instructions for harvesting wood?
 

Gerdih

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just put saplings on the dirt block, add bonemeal and the mechanism does the work. You will see where you have to cut the logs.
 

Arrowstar

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Okay. Nice! You might add those instructions somewhere so people can find them and read them. :)

---------- Post added at 04:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 PM ----------

I've got the outline of the pentagon done in wool right now. Check out the dynmap for a picture. If you guys are okay with the space usage and all that, I'd like to go ahead and start the structural part of the construction. This would basically be getting the lower "atrium" level done. Thoughts?

I'm also still looking for suggestions w.r.t design. I'm not particularly good at these large structures, so anything to make it look less "flat" and whatnot would be much appreciated!
 

Eccentrus

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I've put up an example for the walls of the university

2013-01-13_13.17.41.png


with this, you can also continue the arches inside to make a dome, which is much more realistic and aesthetic if you intend to put trees inside the university, and then we can put the stairs to the second level after the dome you can make a flat flooring and insert classes there :)
 

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Quick_Nick

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minecraftwiki.net is giving me "Servers temporarily at capacity." for the first time ever.
(and it got worse)
 

Arrowstar

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Yep, me too.

Eccentrus: Wow! That looks great. I have no idea if I'll even be able to build that, though. The materials all look pretty standard (regretting giving you all my sand now, lol), but it's so... complex. Did you size it for my pentagon? Also, what do you mean by "continue the arches inside"? I love it, I'd love to build it, but I think I'd really have to study it first, and get some help from you, as well.

--------
On another note, I just visited the gold farm. I have to say, that structure must represent the largest pigman rights violation ever created. So exploitative... I love it. :lol:

Gerdih: I went up to IF this evening and was checking out the villager farms. Very cool. However, at one point I got stuck in in a block while on the rail system (anyone else have this problem?) and had to destroy a block to get out. Not sure what happened to it as I fell a good while after doing so. Just wanted to let you know. Sorry. :(
 
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Eccentrus

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yes it is as wide as the pentagon is, 41 blocks, but the towers in the edges makes it 45 if you want to be strict, but the wall it self up to the middle of the towers is 41.

Well arches are a pretty good way to start making a dome, it doesn't have to be a complete dome, it can be cut off right when the second floor starts, and leave a little hole in the middle for light to come through.

Well, I didn't build things to be like how I do now in an instant, I've studied many builds by other people especially in youtube, and also try to study design philosophies in wikipedia, either by searching for the name (Gothic, Neo-Classical, etc.) or by opening pages of old towns which have notable buildings or architectural styles (for example the inspiration for Leeuwenhoek style is the city of Koln/Cologne).

For the record though, much of the Parliament and Domus Rubra is actually inspired by the styles of [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vittorio_Emmanuele_Monument"]The Vittorio Emmanuele monument in Italy[/ame] and Kazan' Cathedral of St. Petersburg but of course I haven't been able to completely translate their aura into minecraft, since we're limited by blocks and stairs to make accents to the buildings, not to mention the monotonic look the blocks gives us when using only one material.

For building in SkyCity, I suggest you to look more into [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoclassical_architecture"]Neo-Classical Architecture[/ame] and in particular the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_style"]Empire Style[/ame] which is a derivative of the Neoclassical architectural style.

For the purpose of SkyCity University itself though, I think The Rotunda building in the University of Virginia can be a good inspiration especially because it is made with red bricks as well, a style that I particularly fond of out of all the American styles, not to mention that it was designed by Thomas Jefferson.

For my next building, which will house the "hall of chests" in SkyCity (akin to the Commune Building in Orbiteria) I will model it after [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porta_Venezia"]Porta Venezia in Milan[/ame]

My general suggestion about how to build is actually very simple, there are a few things that you have to pay attention to:

1. Tone/Contrast you can't build with just one material, even two will not cut it through as good as it would be when you do with three (glasses are included), this all because we can't translate what I will dub as "accents" in the building styles, primarily because we're building like we do with lego, at a fixed size and mostly fixed shape at that. Real Life Architects can use variably sized materials to achieve contrasts, while ours are fixed, so we have to more or less attempt to simulate what Architects do in real life with our limitations. Blocks which have particularly good tones are the sandstone derivatives (smooth and chiseled), stone bricks, red bricks and nether bricks, and stone slabs, of these nether brick is my favourite because it already has a good toning and contrasting by texture. Stone bricks have a particularly bad texture from my POV, so using it repeatedly for a long wall will make it look flat and ugly, so unless you're actually building a castle wall, avoid to use only stone bricks. Cobblestone is particularly notorious for having a bad texture, and yet it is still a very good material if you use it as a foundation, particularly because it gives off a realistic feel, but it is optional. If you are building in creative though, Obsidian is actually very good, it has the best texture in default.

tl;dr, don't use just one material in a wall

2. Accent, this is what Sjin from Yogscast would like to call depth in his video about building a castle. I define an Architectural Accent in Minecraft as the perception of unblockiness, because what we want to build is beyond cubes and all that, we want to build great structures, even dirt, cobbles and standard sandstones if put together in the correct style can look good, if you can find a way to accentuate it. To achieve an Accent you can use blocks which are not blocky, for example stairs, fences, and glass panels. You can see how to use fences to acquire accent by looking at Leeuwenhoek and the Watchtower (both are done in Leeuwenhoek style), it won't look as good as it would without the fences for example. Another way to achieve accent is to design the walls as such that they are not straight, as with my example in the post before, and as you can see in the map I gave you, the stairs put in the correct stylings can give you a lot more accentuated look than with just blocks, and the corner stairs 1.3 gave us is a particularly magnificent device to achieve accent.

tl;dr don't make a cube, don't just replace the dirt in a dirthouse

3. Roofing. It is of no debate that the form of the roof pretty much define the feel of the building itself. The Style of the roofings particularly should follow the general philosophy that you use in the building itself. For example if you are going with Gothic walls, use a Gothic style roofing to achieve the complete Gothic feel of the building, if you put a dome rather than a high roof in a Gothic building, it suddenly becomes a Neo-Classical building, defeating the purpose of actually building a Gothic style at all. To build a good roof it is of note that you must not attempt to build a stair pyramid, as with blocks, the main principal of roofing is to give it contrast with another subroof, try to think about roofs in fractals, rather than one complete structure, especially if you are not building a dome. And because minecraft stairs have a 45 degrees inclination in which it is not always desirable, remember to cut off at certain points and replace with slab when you want to achieve another inclination.

tl;dr I make great roofs :lol:

4. Repetition. It is absolutely unnecessary to build a unique style for every facet of a structure, unless if you are actually building a statue rather than a building. You actually just need to design either a section of a wall which you can repeat ad infinitum or one side of the building which you can then replicate, which is why I would suggest you to build in rectangular rather than pentagonal because minecraft doesn't like anything that is not a cube. But then again, even when you have got a very good style to repeat in your structure, you still have to break it once in a while to give it contrast, and the break can be a very good marker of the midline of the building for example, a break can be put in form of a great window, an arch, or a door, whichever you prefer.

tl;dr you actually only design a fraction of the building

well pretty much this what I have got to say for now, go at it, and try yourself in creative, you have the necessary talents to build great buildings in minecraft, as the houses of the south SkyCity stand in testament, you just need to translate that ability into a larger scale, and actually your attempt to fit in the redstone powering inside those houses gives them such an accent that makes them one of the best set of houses I've seen either in the server or outside.
 
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Arrowstar

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Thanks for the great write-up! I'll take a look at those links and see what I can gather.

My biggest questions now concern the "angled" walls of the pentagon. I found when doing my version of the structure that those tended to have a funny/odd look to them, and that was with just a flat wall. With your more complex structure, I'm not sure it would work well. In this case, I might consider making the structure square instead. The pentagon shape is really less important to me than a good-looking building. What are your thoughts?

As for the dome you keep talking about... I'm afraid I really don't see it yet. I know you've dumped a bunch of time into helping me as it is, but could I ask you to extend your previous creative build map that you attached to demonstrate how you'd A) start the dome, and B) move on to the second floor? I'd like to try my hand at designing the exterior of that floor without help, and with your comments I think I can do it, but I'm not entirely sure how to blend your fairly thick wall into a dome and that into a second floor...

Thanks! And btw, good luck with your upcoming exams. :cheers:

EDIT: I'm going to try my hand at recreating what you've built today along the line where the southern-most portion of the pentagon is. If it works (and I think it will), we'll go from there based on your reply to my above questions.
 

Eccentrus

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well, if it's the real world, you can simply rotate the walls, but in minecraft, you have to base it off a cube, that's why the sky city is in octagon, because any other shape (except a circle) is just plain impossible. Making a polygon in Minecraft has to take into account the blockiness that is inherent and I think pentagons are only good to build if you are going about to make a garden, something that is flat on the ground. So yes, I suggest to make it a rectangle.

Well you have to wait until I finish my wednesday exam then, after that I'm practically free until the last bout of exams the week after :)
 

Gerdih

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Btw, Arrowstar I forgot to say this; You only can use the treefarm with oak saplings and jungle saplings. Other trees cant grow there.
 

Artlav

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On another note, I just visited the gold farm. I have to say, that structure must represent the largest pigman rights violation ever created. So exploitative... I love it. :lol:
I thought of putting a flower in memory of them there, like i did on the IF, but it does not seem fitting. Zombies are dead already, after all. :)
 

orb

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Gerdih: I went up to IF this evening and was checking out the villager farms. Very cool. However, at one point I got stuck in in a block while on the rail system (anyone else have this problem?) and had to destroy a block to get out. Not sure what happened to it as I fell a good while after doing so. Just wanted to let you know. Sorry. :(

I went to the Iron Farm today, to check what block on a rail line you are talking about, and I couldn't find any missing. Which line was that? The one to go to Sky City or one of those to transport prisoners for penal work (constructing iron golems) to towers?


By the way, who locked that little guy trying to welcome me warmly in the Sky City in the pentagon? :lol:
Creeper_in_pentagon.jpg
 

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Did not see that post by Arrowstar or I forgot it, I will check the villager lines of IF but they are normally damaged so dont worry about that I just need to know there is a problem to fix it if I need to move villagers to the cells but I normally check and fix the lines before that.
 

Eccentrus

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Continuing the discussion with Arrowstar here, I can just use PMs but I think that it is also in the benefit of everyone in the server to learn from this exchange. I am by no means a master of architecture, and you can find many people building better buildings than I do in the screenshot subforum of minecraftforum.net ,of which I am a lurker :blush: but still I would like to share what I have learned from the last couple of years of minecraft here.

So I'm going to continue to elaborate about my philosophy of designs. In my designs, every building has a "core" a particular structure that you can build by its own and can be repeated throughout the structure, for the University Model it is this wall

2013-01-13_21.13.03.png


From this very basic and flat structure, you would want to bring out tone and contrast, with minimal accentic impact that you can work on, this is the primary stage of designing, and pretty much defines the skeleton of your designs. Although looks simple and unchallenging, building up the core is the most important stage of designing, if you make a bad core, it will be challenging to fix it up later on, and it defines how much you can expand the accents later, and ultimately, in what form the building will finally end up. Of one of the most importance here is the shape of the windows you would like to aim, in here I made an arc-shaped windows which you can see in the picture. The shape of a core can be different for varying architectural styles. In Leeuwenhoek style, the core is a 4x4 wall made of stone slabs and woods, in Leeuwenhoek-Watchtower style, it's a 7x7 wall, and in this model I bring to you, it's actually of an L-shaped skeleton of which primary foundations you can see here

2013-01-13_21.15.34.png


Which means that I'm including the towers into the primary designs. Why? Some of you might ask, it's because in designing a core, you have think up how to connect the cores with each other. In Leeuwenhoek-Watchtower styling for example, the core has a column of pinewood barks on each of the side, and I designate the barks as the point of connection, meaning that even though the core is 7x7, the whole structure which is made up of 3 cores actually sizes up to 19 blocks wide, rather than 21 that it would take three cores standing side by side will take. In this University Model, I designate the point of connection, the start of which we will replicate the core, at the towers in each side, and this is a little bit more complicated because the core is mirrored rather than simply be copied from the other side, but the mirroring which consists only of two inessential red bricks, is not significant in this model, and thus can be disregarded. And you can also see that the form of the towers has been changed, it is because this one can bring out more "flesh" later on.

Next step after the core is done, will be to start accentuating the core into its complete form. This phase is like fleshing out the building out of the skeletons of the core. Each style can have different phases of fleshing out the building. The Leeuwenhoek style relies heavily on awnings and fences to make pseudo-balconies to achieve this. In this university model, we are having a different approach, so there will be two phases of accentuation. The first is the extending of the core itself, by implanting what I would call the Izack Column into some sides of the core.

2013-01-13_21.14.57.png


this is done with basic materials, a stone brick at the base, because it will be covered later on by the second phase of accentuation, several red bricks to make the body of the column, and a chiseled brick to top it off, this will remind you to a little warm friend you left inside the pentagon (which I presume is Izack's deranged wife, who escaped from Usanolon). I decided to leave the top of the column lower than the smooth sandstone segment in the core, because this will bring out contrast later on when we start to make the arches. On a side note, even though this phase is essential in this model, it is entirely optional.

And then we can start to accentuate using the primary accented materials (stairs, fences, glass panels, etc.) Some people would like to use trap doors in this, but I am against using materials which depends on custom textures to look good. Always remember to cross-check with default textures when you build, it is actually essential to keep the building looking good throughout various texture packs.

So I started to use stone bricks stairs to cover the base of the columns giving it the look of a base of one.

2013-01-13_21.13.16.png


which then starts the chain of accentuation process that gives the feel of complexity in the completed form of this model, which brings us back to the first picture at the page before this one.

2013-01-13_13.17.41.png


when you look into the detail above the "Izack column" which is a secondary arch in the sides of the completed walls, it is actually consisted of two separate structures, first of all of course is a roofing done with upside down stone brick stairs. To do this simply put a stone brick or other place holder above the creeper's head (the chiseled sandstone) and start putting upside down brick stone stairs around it. After that on top of the resulting roofing (2x3), put two layers of materials, first layer is of smooth sandstone and the second is of chiseled sandstone, after that upon it put a layer of stone bricks after which you can cover on the sides with upside down stone brick stairs, resulting in a 4x5 platform. Upon that platform repeat what you have done, with the smooth sandstone and whatnot until it achieves the complete form as shown above or in the first wall inside the save file.

And then inbetween the two expanded Izack Column put first a stone brick stair upside down on the level of the tallest smooth sandstone. And then above it, put one stone brick, and put another stone brick in front of that one, and then put another upside down stone brick stairs after that and it shall achieve the complete form of that particular detail. Do it as well in the side of the tower where it intersect with the core wall and Izack column's detail, but this time you also want to put two upside down brick stairs facing toward the Izack column, rather than the core wall.

And hereby ends my tutorial for today, I will continue it tomorrow with the central arch (which is primarily an inverted stair pyramid) and then explain how I would want to put a dome inside the building, for the mean time, try to build the core and the accentuation process that I have described and the save file as in the state of the pictures above is uploaded and can be found on the bottom of this post.

In the mean time here is why I dub the walls as the core:

2013-01-13_21.15.23.png


this is a picture of a finished side of the wall, and you can see that the core wall is still there waiting to be fleshed out and brought out to life.

On a side note, you can see my inventory in the pictures, which is the only materials I have used as far.
 

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