Project Soyuz 7k.dll

[4throck]

N_Molson, you are basicly double checking what was done before with the sc3 version. I think I got the SA RCS right on that version and as before that the mesh is correct.

But I'm very happy that you are checking it.

From my point of view, even if the mesh is missing some detail, just put the jet at the right place. It's enough for me and in the future it might only be a matter of changing meshes.

Here are some of the images I used for reference:

As for the separation sequence, again, I think we got it right on the previous version. For realism, I think it might be controlled by some kind of on board program, so that's something that might be nice to implement.

Once we are in the SA reentry mode (separated), I don't know what happens to the Vzor without the periscope. Is it just like a porthole? Perhaps on that situation you can switch to the VC we had on the previous version. That would make the landing experience more real I think.

 

[N_Molson]

N_Molson, you are basicly double checking what was done before with the sc3 version

Yeah, I realized that at the end :lol:

But anyway I needed to understood how the thing was working to simulate it. I got the angle of the pitch thrusters by passing a cylinder through them in anim8tor. I get 48.5°.

Yes, good idea about the camera. VC only + external views once the periscope is away.

(there are errors on the thrust vectors in the sc3 files, vectors are not normalized)

Another thing I don't get is that you defined two sets of Yaw thrusters and no roll control ?

Edit : got it working, some torque on the roll axis but I'd say it's realistic, given the location of the thrusters.



So now the RCS is operational for the 3 different configurations. Time to get into the translation mode, and to code an anti-torque program.

First docking accomplished. OK, I started 500 meters away and roughly in the approach vector, but the rotation and translation modes passed the test, and so the anti-torque program !



Note : On the book already quoted above, they mention that the Soyuz7K used H2O2/UDMH tanks for RCS engines feeding and main engines turbines activation.

 

[4throck]

Looking good! My only comment is that the RCS exhaust in reality is very subtle. We used a real Soyuz docking video to scale it in the sc3 version.
I'm not against you interpreting it differently, but from your screenshots it looks like smoke!
Of course, I do understand that your work is WIP and the exhaust is probably just the default ;-)
One last thing: please PLEASE use the Salyut addon for the shots! It gives a much better look to everything!

 

[N_Molson]

About the appearance, it's hard to take good screenshots of particlestreams. Also the effect may vary depending of the use of the D3D7 or D3D9 clients. And remember, the exhausts you see from the final docking videos are taken during the final approaches. At this point the RCS are controlled by computer and bursts are extremely short, they can last like milliseconds, and we can't have such precision in Orbiter (matter of FPS). So it is hard to tell. We simulate it by being able to "throttle" the RCS. And then you get too a faint exhaust for small corrections

Anyway, that's the kind of details that will be easy to adjust at the end.

Right now I'm trying to code a "semi-automatic" piloting mode, where you could select like +0.1°/s, +-0.5°/s, +-3°/s to optimize the amount of fuel consumed during rotation (they have something like that in the Soyuz).

 

[4throck]

:thumbup: Agree 100% !

That's the kind of stuff that makes a simulation real. Of course that those thrusters aren't supposed to be firing continuously as you were probably doing in order to test them, so in reality there will be less smoke

Regarding the auto piloting modes, I'll try to look into that. Perhaps there are some preset attitude modes, at least it makes sense in order to keep the solar panels pointed ;-) But let's not get ahead of things with suggestions before the basic stuff is worked out.

The only thing that worries me is usability. We really need some sort of status panel / interface for this. Text on screen might do, if we can change it's color or layout to mimic one of the Soyus status panels...

I can think about it (layout), but you need to tell me what can be done regarding the programing side. No point in dreaming about stuff that simply can't be implemented.

---------- Post added at 01:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 AM ----------

OK, can't help it myself!

I was checking the impressive documentation (a great work done by Urwumpe) about the 7K IDS on the Orbiter Wiki: http://www.orbiterwiki.org/wiki/Sirius-7K_IDS

What would be nice to have is an implementation of the "Command/Signal instrument (CSI)". The translated table on the wiki is all we need to know the status of the simulated systems (and how it was in reality).
We don't need them all and I'd only consider doing it in English.

So for spacecraft control, we should have:

Attitude Control System: DU , RO, Pulsed RO, IO, sun tracking
Navigation: Manual control, βс , γс , αх , СКД
impulse , manual input

There's more stuff of course, like autopilots and such. My suggestion is to keep it simple but follow the solutions found by the original engineers.

We also have a "Electroluminescent Signal Indicator" that will show the pilot the status of several systems. Things like "Undocking", "Low pressure in DM", etc.

In summary, I think that we can do this with simple colored text tables on screen.
I'll wait for more feedback on what can be done on the programming side, because both modules will have a different set of indicators / options and some more research is needed to make it workable, otherwise it's just a complication!

 

[N_Molson]

Wow... Yes, impressive is the word :blink:

Well, I just coded something that could be similar to "Pulsed RO" (К 7-8). Thorton did something similar in his excellent TMA.

You select an angular velocity offset (like 0.5 deg/sec or 0.01 deg/sec), then you press the wished numpad key (or hit max threshold on the joystick). The computer then fires the thrusters to match with the angular velocity change. It works with DPO & DO modes. It could be sumed up as an "incremential mode".

There are a few little bugs that can cause the RCS to jam, but those are minor issues and the Politburo is confident that they will soon be fixed ::rofl:
"Help !"

Now I don't know if such a system would require to have the Sun, stars or IR track of the Earth to check the angular velocity of the vessel.

 

[Grover]

probably two, since there is always an axis that cant be tracked relative to a point (you could spin axial to the sun and it would be impossible to tell)

 

[4throck]

Looking good! :thumbup:

The proposed control method is similar to one of the Mercury modes, if I remember correctly (It might be Gemini). It should work, providing (and that's my only point for now) that the user knows in what mode it is and has an easy way of changing it.

Any way of creating a translatable interface for this? I'm thinking about the lines of having something like a "7klanguage.txt" file that the .dll loaded and then used it to display all the labels.... This way you could chose (by changing the file) to read "DPO & DO modes" or "Strong / weak RCS", or even real Russian language.

My suggestions are just that: suggestions.
Also I don't want to create "noise" regarding the development of this, so I'll let N_Molson work his magic. But I'm willing to contribute with the simplified translation (my russian is nonexistent, but of course a English for beguinning cosmonauts and my native Portuguese are interesting possibilities).

But again, step by step. Let the spacecraft navigate first, then separate and reenter! :lol: Let's say that we are still doing dog flights at best! No need for it to speak any language yet!

 

[N_Molson]

Yes, the idea is to make the spacecraft fully operational (still a lot to do : animations, reentry aero- & thermo-dynamics, minimal life support management, batteries...) with uMMu capability, and that should give us a solid v1.0. :yes:

To go further and implement more complex things like malfunctions, alarms, & realistic navigation modes, wouldn't the best be 2d panels (in russian, of course) or a clickable VC ?

 

[MaverickSawyer]

2d panels at minimum. VC's are a nice touch if you can get them.
Either way, outstanding work.

 

[4throck]

To go further and implement more complex things like malfunctions, alarms, & realistic navigation modes, wouldn't the best be 2d panels (in russian, of course) or a clickable VC ?

For now, I'd do with text display.

Just output a red text to the screen and we will understand that it is an alarm! :lol:

A status bar can be implemented like this:
|--[]--| (middle)
|[]----| (empty)
|----[]| (full)

I'm all for a VC or 2D panels BUT the amount of time involved makes it unrealistic for now (at least on my part).
ASCII works wonders!

Keep it simple !

 

[N_Molson]

I'm all for a VC or 2D panels BUT the amount of time involved makes it unrealistic for now (at least on my part).

Same here.

ASCII works wonders!

Thanks to Martins, we have Sketchpad, which is much much better. It's possible to draw rectangles and other simple geometric figures, plain or outlined, so status bars should be ok. The font can even be changed, for exemple we could display text in Cyrillic (but for that, it would be better to know Cyrillic). That kind of stuff can be coded without too much trouble.

 

[4throck]

Nice to hear that N_Molson!

From a programing point of view (I'm experienced in web development, mainly stuff using the GoogleEarth API) you just need to output your variables. You can at any time write another function to handle the conversion of a numerical variable to a status bar, link it to the position of a texture (in a 2D panel) or a mesh group (for a 3D VC).
But the basic work of setting up your variables, events and handling them logically is just the same regardless of the interface.

So, keeping it simple and logical from the beginning, does it make sense to support different languages? I was thinking about the Intercosmos missions. Those extend beyond the 7K time-line, but the documentations exists. I've seen some technical docs in French for example ("moteurs de contrôle d'orientation - MCO" for RCS is fun :thumbup: )

What's the best way to do this? You will give us a list of internal variables to translate ?
Or do we leave it for next Tuesday (when the first beta is released ;-) )?

Keep up the good work!

 

[Wishbone]

Cyrillic can IMHO wait till version 2.0. The simplest interface is ASCII output to screen and input of commands with the help of one shortcut popping an InputBox.

 

[N_Molson]

Oh and some pics/drawings of the 7K with stowed antennas would be helpful, too. :yes:

uMMu basic implementation added.

 

[diogom]

All I can find for now:

From the old October Sky project, though its a different version.

Edit: Also, https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-U9JBtz79apQ/TYvEpcJOjlI/AAAAAAAAcnE/8dleFwtmCAA/184-1.jpg

 

[N_Molson]

If this drawing is correct, the BO EVA hatch opens towards the inside ? It seems that few EVAs were performed from a Soyuz ?

 

[diogom]

Few more:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/65/162182461_8db2b72f6c_o.jpg

http://friends-partners.org/mwade/graphics/s/soyokfem.jpg (OK version, should be about the same though)

---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 PM ----------

If this drawing is correct, the BO EVA hatch opens towards the inside ? It seems that few EVAs were performed from a Soyuz ?

Yes, at least one, in Soyuz 4 and 5. That was with the OK version though.

 

[4throck]

Here you go:

Antenae and panels closed for launch!



A little OT, but can't help to share images that I haven't seen before: Soyuz 4 - 5 onboard (Orbital module) and undocking images with reasonable quality!



TV broadcasting from space ship "Soyuz-4". Cosmonaut Yevgeny Khrunov in zero gravity environment in orbital compartment.

Disconnection starting of space ships "Soyuz-4" and "Soyuz-5"

Control panel in orbital compartment of space ship "Soyuz"

TV broadcast from "Soyuz-4"spaceship. "Soyuz-5"spaceship is in the picture area after undocking.

Cosmonaut Evgeny Khrunov is passing to "Soyuz-4" spaceship.

Space pilot Aleksey Eliseev is coming out into the open space.TV report picture area.

Undocking moment of "Soyuz-4" and "Soyuz-5" spaceships.TV report picture area.

Space pilot Aleksey Eliseev is coming out into the open space. TV report picture area.

More VERY interesting stuff here: http://visualrian.ru/en/site/flow/category/science/?startfrom=32724

 

[diogom]

Holy.... that's a goldmine you found 4throck!