News US declares public health emergency

[Moonwalker]

I doubt that what we call swine flu is mostly deadly for people with a good immune system. A good immune system is able to resist (as you can see by taking a look to the ones in Europe and USA who already are on the road to recovery). Otherwise it is a contradiction to call such an overreacting and failing immune system at the end a "good" one.

There are different reasons why some suffer from diseases, not only because of a virus (or lets say a compound of enzymes and proteins which are believed as an evidence of a virus) while some others die, and some don't get anything.

The smallpox vaccine was based on empirical evidence and proved to be an effective vaccine - that is how science is done.

In Europe, smallpox vaccinations initially was an eyewitness report of Mary Montagu (a british author) in the early 18th century (she observed vaccinations in Turkey). But the idea of smallpox vaccinations is believed to be almost as old as Christianity.

Anyway, Edward Jenner (a country doctor) was that one who basically developed the smallpox vaccinations in Europe. His work was based on his report of experiments with 23 persons. Out of these 23 persons, 14 were not vaccinated, one boy died after his vaccination, one woman bore a death baby and other individual cases happened (which Edward Jenner tried to hush up). At the end, only 4 out of these 23 persons could be used as an evidence of a potential effectiveness of smallpox vaccinations. Edward Jenner sold his vaccine to royal courts. They vaccinated basically phan children to get more vaccine from the resulting pustules. At those times, when it began to became a profit, the early derision and scepticism (even by many doctors) against smallpox vaccinations disappeared more and more. Although many people got smallpox vaccinations in England, many of them died nevertheless.

Today there are admited risks (I don't say known, because it was known but ignored from the bginning due to profit as usual, especially within the drug industry). Today the number looks less dramatic: 1 complications out of 1.000 smallpox vaccinations. But this is an estimated underplay number for sure. A lot of, if not the majority of doctors, are against smallpox vaccinations.

A friend of mine went to Brazil for three weeks about two month ago. Prior, to be sure, he visited 5 German doctors to get an advice for vaccinations and costs. 2 of them even advised against vaccinations because the sense and nonsense and the risks of vaccinations is still controversial.

 

[ar81]

Great. Our retirement accounts have been raided by corporate criminals, we've been laid off our jobs, and now we all get to die of pig flu.

At least we do not have a planet killer asteroid impact.

 

[T.Neo]

At least we do not have a planet killer asteroid impact.

At least not yet.:hunter:

 

[Ghostrider]

At least not yet.:hunter:

The Moon is nice tonight.

Hey, wait. That's no moon...

 

[Hielor]

Today there are admited risks (I don't say known, because it was known but ignored from the bginning due to profit as usual, especially within the drug industry). Today the number looks less dramatic: 1 complications out of 1.000 smallpox vaccinations. But this is an estimated underplay number for sure. A lot of, if not the majority of doctors, are against smallpox vaccinations.

The reason that the majority of doctors are against smallpox vaccinations has nothing to do with the danger of the vaccination and everything to do with the fact that smallpox no longer exists in the wild.

 

[Moonwalker]

The reason that the majority of doctors are against smallpox vaccinations has nothing to do with the danger of the vaccination and everything to do with the fact that smallpox no longer exists in the wild.

The smallpox vaccinations are fraught with well known postvaccinal complications. That is why today smallpox vaccinations only are recommended in case of onset and only for those who suffer from smallpox or are directly threatened. In the USA for example, mass-immunizations are unprovided for the case that smallpox return. The best proven containment are quarantine methods.

A different and improved lifestyle compared to earler stages of our societies enables a world in the absence of some diseases without the need of vaccinations. But a lot of people are still governed by vaccination-fanatics.

 

[Hielor]

The smallpox vaccinations are fraught with well known postvaccinal complications. That is why today smallpox vaccinations only are recommended in case of onset and only for those who suffer from smallpox or are directly threatened.

Er, right, and how long has it been since someone had smallpox?

 

[n122vu]

Bourbon won't do jack against a Zombie plague. Where is my bird flu epidemic at?

Actually, the strain in question appears to be a combination of swine, human, and bird variations of the flu. See http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517773,00.html?sPage=fnc/health/infectious , bullet point 2.

 

[simonpro]

I doubt that what we call swine flu is mostly deadly for people with a good immune system. A good immune system is able to resist (as you can see by taking a look to the ones in Europe and USA who already are on the road to recovery). Otherwise it is a contradiction to call such an overreacting and failing immune system at the end a "good" one.

Wrong, research this: Cytokine storm

There are different reasons why some suffer from diseases, not only because of a virus (or lets say a compound of enzymes and proteins which are believed as an evidence of a virus) while some others die, and some don't get anything.

So you don't believe viruses exist? Good thing that your immune system disagrees with you on that point.

A lot of, if not the majority of doctors, are against smallpox vaccinations.

It's generally not a good idea to vaccinate against diseases that are impossible to get naturally.

A friend of mine went to Brazil for three weeks about two month ago. Prior, to be sure, he visited 5 German doctors to get an advice for vaccinations and costs. 2 of them even advised against vaccinations because the sense and nonsense and the risks of vaccinations is still controversial.

Were they proper doctors or were their degrees from internet universities?
Frankly I think any doctor who advises against vaccinations is doing a disservice to his profession and, even worse, endangering his patients. It's simply disgraceful.

I have to ask, is there any subject that you don't have a misguided opinion on?

 

[eveningsky339]

An acquaintance of mine works with flu patients. He says that as of right now it appears that this strain is as aggressive as a typical flu strain. The mortality rate among 1st world nations has yet to be decided, though.

 

[Moonwalker]

Wrong, research this: Cytokine storm

Cytokine storm dos not happen to immune systems I tend to call "good". The pathogenetic causes of cytokine storm are vague by the way.

If the current swine flu would be a special threat to humans with a "good" immune system, than I'm happy that my immune system seems to be in a rather bad condition. Since I've never suffered from any influenza for now, not even whan I was a child (the "worst" thing I've ver had was diarrhea for 3 days, in 1998, caused by bad food). I did not get any vaccination for more than 20 years (I also won't let it to happen for sure), and I did never get an injection against influenza at all. My diet and the sports I do for more than 16 years are much more effective than any ridiculous fluid pumped into my veins (or I should say "not pumped" in my case luckily).

So you don't believe viruses exist? Good thing that your immune system disagrees with you on that point.

The fact that some suffer from influenza, and some not, some die badly, and some not, shows that it's not basically what we call viruses, which causes diseases and death. There are other circumstances too which led to a bad, sorry, "good" immune system.

I have to ask, is there any subject that you don't have a misguided opinion on?

Yes.

 

[Hielor]

The fact that some suffer from influenza, and some not, some die badly, and some not, shows that it's not basically what we call viruses, which causes diseases and death. There are other circumstances too which led to a bad, sorry, "good" immune system.

The fact that smallpox was completely eradicated by a worldwide vaccination program shows that vaccination at least can do something right.

And you completely fail to understand the concept of the immune system if you think that the fact that some die to a disease while others don't shows that viruses don't cause death.

 

[tblaxland]

Cytokine storm dos not happen to immune systems I tend to call "good". The pathogenetic causes of cytokine storm are vague by the way.

Well, immune systems that are active enough to keep you in healthy condition (generally considered "good") are more prone to cytokine storm than those that are less active, for sure. Granted, if you have an less active immune system and sufficiently isolate yourself from the general populace, you may be able to avoid both viruses and cytokine storm. See also my points below about exercise/diet.

If the current swine flu would be a special threat to humans with a "good" immune system, than I'm happy that my immune system seems to be in a rather bad condition. Since I've never suffered from any influenza for now, not even whan I was a child (the "worst" thing I've ver had was diarrhea for 3 days, in 1998, caused by bad food). I did not get any vaccination for more than 20 years (I also won't let it to happen for sure), and I did never get an injection against influenza at all. My diet and the sports I do for more than 16 years are much more effective than any ridiculous fluid pumped into my veins (or I should say "not pumped" in my case luckily).

Firstly, you question Jenner's methods, yet you are prepared to argue from a sample size of 1?

Secondly, many people (here at least, and myself included) don't get flu vaccinations - they are generally kept for either the very young or very old and when there is a risk of infection (like during an epidemic). Most doctors will recommend against unnecessary vaccinations, as you have discovered and as others have already pointed out. For example, in Australia and New Zealand, smallpox vaccinations were never done in the broad population because the disease was never widespread enough to justify it. It is horses for courses.

Thirdly, good exercise and diet are great for general health and well being and I also personally recommend them. I am of no illusions that the increased benefit to my immune system will provide me with greater benefit over the course of my lifetime, even if the risk if cytokine storm is increased given the relative rarity of pathogens that are capable of causing them. Bear in mind that it is also possible for a subject to have a "good" immune system and poor general fitness, in which case the subject would be poorly placed to weather a cytokine storm, relative to someone with better general fitness (such as yourself?).

The fact that some suffer from influenza, and some not, some die badly, and some not, shows that it's not basically what we call viruses, which causes diseases and death. There are other circumstances too which led to a bad, sorry, "good" immune system.

^ What Hielor said.

 

[Hielor]

Hundreds sick at school in NYC: http://news.aol.com/article/swine-flu-outbreak/449320

 

[Woo482]

A 23-month-old child in Texas is the first person known to have died of swine flu outside Mexico, where it may have killed as many as 159 people.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8024611.stm

 

[steph]

Let's hope it happened mainly because of the age.

 

[n122vu]

Actually, the strain in question appears to be a combination of swine, human, and bird variations of the flu. See http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517773,00.html?sPage=fnc/health/infectious , bullet point 2.

4/29/09 - According to an article at Wired.com, new data is now showing that it is a combination of 2 different strains of swine flu, with no avian or human contribution as was earlier reported. Report here.

 

[Eagle]

4/29/09 - According to an article at Wired.com, new data is now showing that it is a combination of 2 different strains of swine flu, with no avian or human contribution as was earlier reported. Report here.

But Manbirdpig is real! I'm super serial!

Meh, isn't it fun when the news gets so hysterical that the facts aren't even correct anymore?

 

[clickypens]

Let's hope it happened mainly because of the age.

he was a Mexican. He had left the Federal District a few weeks ago I believe to visit family in Brownsville, a border town. Although he became ill in Houston, I personally believe that he had picked it up in Mexico before ever going to Texas. But, they still say that he died quickly even with "aggressive treatment".


I'd also like to say that this isn't exactly Mexico's fault but Carroll Farms'. There's a town called La Gloria on the border of Puebla in Veracruz, and around it are some fifteen hog farms in Puebla. The citizens of this town and the newspaper knew about the terrible conditions of these farms for years, but Carroll Farms had been paying the government to keep it hushed up. And now they're saying that their farms were of good quality and that they can't imagine this coming from their farms.

Attached is an article from 2006. It's in Spanish, but the pictures speak for themselves.
http://enlace.vazquezchagoya.com/?p=812

 

[Moonwalker]

A german nurse allegedly got contaminated by a patient and suffered from the virus, regarding German media. But she allegedly is healthy already. What a beast of a killer virus...

If the numbers are correct (the german influenza study group is mainly funded by vaccine producers; they need to publish large numbers), about up to about 10.000 people in Germany allegedly die each year because of the sequelae of what is called influenza. That is more than 25 people each day averagely. However, more than 99% of Germans who each year suffer from what is called influenza do "survive".

But not to mention cancer, which allegedly causes more than 500 deaths in Germany each day averagely (and I wonder how many of these die because of the side-effects of treatments rather than on cancer itself).

The swine flu is useful for political lobbyists to try to distract away from the financial crisis, and useful for the lobbyists of the pharmaceutical industry as well. No more, no less. It will silently disappear like the avian flu panics campaign as well. Luckily, all persons I asked about it within the last days (family, friends and colleagues) were not interested in it at all (I basically got replies almost like "don't you have interesing/normal hobbies?"). I even talked to a veterinary. But I'm not going to quote him here since there'll be the question then if he is a degree from an internet university... (which he is not).