Velcro Rockets

eveningsky339

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Hi Sputnik,

I am having trouble with the alternate boosters for the Dyna-Soar and the passenger bay module (for docking). I copy and paste from the MOL Launch + Dock scenario, in which the payload bay is included in a PAYLOAD string inside of the STAGE.

STAGE X-20 X20/burncycles_dynasoar X20/X20wTranstage 0 0 7.75 19442.0 0.0 1.0
PAYLOAD PassengerBay X20/Paxbay X20/Paxbay 0 0 8.65 900.000 0 1
ENDSTAGE

When I copy this string into the X-20 stage of a Saturn-based alternate booster, the bay is not in the proper location and everything except the de-orbit motor jettisons after the first stage.
 

flying coffin

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I'm missing something here. I'm trying to put the X-37 on an Atlas V 501 per the november launch configuration. I always get a CTD somewhere though. I've tried using STAGE, and PAYLOAD parameters with it. Can you tell me what I'm doing wrong? Here's a couple of configurations I've tried, starting from the Centaur configuration:

STAGE SECentaur Velcro/EELV/SECentaur Velcro/AtlasVSECentaur 0.00 0.00 20.75 22823.00 0.00 1.00
PAYLOAD X37b X-37b spacecraft\spacecraft3 0.00 0.00 29.75 3970.00 0.00 1.00
ENDSTAGE
PAYLOAD Fair1 Velcro/Parts/AtlasfairVM_1 Velcro/Parts/AtlasfairVM_1 0.00 0.00 16.75 2324.50 0.00 0.00
PAYLOAD Fair2 Velcro/Parts/AtlasfairVM_2 Velcro/Parts/AtlasfairVM_2 0.00 0.00 16.75 2324.50 0.00 0.00
END

I've also tried:

STAGE SECentaur Velcro/EELV/SECentaur Velcro/AtlasVSECentaur 0.00 0.00 20.75 22823.00 0.00 1.00
STAGE X37b X-37b spacecraft\spacecraft3 0.00 0.00 29.75 3970.00 0.00 1.00
ENDSTAGE
ENDSTAGE
PAYLOAD Fair1 Velcro/Parts/AtlasfairVM_1 Velcro/Parts/AtlasfairVM_1 0.00 0.00 16.75 2324.50 0.00 0.00
PAYLOAD Fair2 Velcro/Parts/AtlasfairVM_2 Velcro/Parts/AtlasfairVM_2 0.00 0.00 16.75 2324.50 0.00 0.00
END

I've also tried putting the STAGE for the X-37 just after the ENDSTAGE for the centaur.

Any ideas on where I'm going wrong?

Thanks,

Chris
 

sputnik

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The first one is the correct construct, BUT...

IS there an X-37b? Check to make sure you've got your filenames right. Let's look at the beginning of the PAYLOAD specification:

>PAYLOAD X37b X-37b spacecraft\spacecraft3

Working from the back, we're running spacecraft3.dll once the payload is created. Well and good.
Before the payload is created, we'll display X-37b.msh at the point specified. It's important to make sure that there IS an X-37b.msh; if it doesn't exist, that'll be an instand CTD.
Before that comes the name; once we create it, the vessel will be called "X37b". All good; we could call it anything...except that we can't. Because we're using spacecraft3.dll, it's looking for an .ini with the same name. If X37b.ini doesn't exist, it's another CTD. I suspect that X-37b.ini is what actually exists.

Note that this is limitation of doing this with spacecraft3; if you want to launch a pair of X-37's in a single scenario, you either have to name them both after the .ini, make two .ini's, or start fooling with the SERIESBURN or PAYATCH parameters instead of using CVEL.
 

flying coffin

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Ah! OK. I thought I could name it anything since for my LRO practice I called one probe
LRO, and I called the other one LCROSS and that worked.

One of these days I'll have to actually make an add-on and I'll figure out how all this stuff really works.

Thanks a bunch!

-Chris
 
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I like it alot!


Few Problems, why does it say in the Orbiter Diagnostic By ar81 that most of your meshes are missing. I'm looking through into the meshes directory where it points to and I find every single mesh that it thinks is missing.
Nothing is missing.

Also is there a way that I could get an annotated .scn file so I can see how to set up my own stack without using the Native ScnEditor? Yes I use that.
 

sputnik

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Sorry; just noticed this.

Few Problems, why does it say in the Orbiter Diagnostic By ar81 that most of your meshes are missing. I'm looking through into the meshes directory where it points to and I find every single mesh that it thinks is missing.
Nothing is missing.

I don't have a clue! I don't use Orbiter Diagnostic, myself, so haven't tried this.
The only thing I can think of is that some of the meshes are three directories deep (/Meshes/Velcro/Parts), and perhaps Orbiter Diagnostic doesn't go that far?
Or perhaps it's the "dummy" meshes that it doesn't like. I have a few "dummy" meshes with header info, but no points. They get used in a few spacecraft like the X-20 (to keep a mesh's index number from changing after jettison and the like), and occasionally with Velcro (for when you need a thruster but no mesh, like the NOTSNIK first-stage burn or the Delta IV Heavy throttle changes).

Either way, though, it sounds like it isn't actually a problem.


Also is there a way that I could get an annotated .scn file so I can see how to set up my own stack without using the Native ScnEditor? Yes I use that.

Erm...does that mean you DO use Notepad, or that you don't?

I built the documentation to act as a sort of annotated .scn file, as I couldn't really find a single .scn that exercised every parameter, so I pulled examples and commented them. If you need something more, I'm not sure what that would look like. Please let me know what you're looking for.


Either way, thanks for the kind words. Glad to help.


-----Posted Added-----


Edit: I just tried out the velcro Skybolt, A great ballistic missile, They're something I can never get enough of in Orbiter! But how about using the same visual atomic explosion effect that you used for Orion for the impact?

Sly,

If you have DaveR's old Trinity add-on lying around, you can use that as a payload. Put a dummy mesh as the displayed mesh until it separates; ought to work well enough.
 

garyw

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Sure! Set the PADBIAS parameter.
PADBIAS gets added directly to the touchdown point, so to sit higher off the ground, you need to set PADBIAS to a negative number.

I've done this and it works well but the PADBIAS doesn't get saved with the scenario meaning that I have to edit it each time if I want to keep a Velcro Rocket in the current scenario....

Is that a bug or a feature? :lol:
 
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...
Erm...does that mean you DO use Notepad, or that you don't?

I built the documentation to act as a sort of annotated .scn file, as I couldn't really find a single .scn that exercised every parameter, so I pulled examples and commented them. If you need something more, I'm not sure what that would look like. Please let me know what you're looking for.
...

I use the Native editor right now, but then I can't have automatic staging, and I have to have 20 different Universal Cargo Decks. It all starts to be confusing for launch.

I would LIKE to use Notepad, I was just wondering if anybody had an annotated file that used velcro for a kind of quick start, maybe how to set up the Atlantis with velcro. The .documentation that came with it is good, I just don't quite understand what kind of values go where.
 

sputnik

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I use the Native editor right now, but then I can't have automatic staging, and I have to have 20 different Universal Cargo Decks. It all starts to be confusing for launch.

I would LIKE to use Notepad, I was just wondering if anybody had an annotated file that used velcro for a kind of quick start, maybe how to set up the Atlantis with velcro. The .documentation that came with it is good, I just don't quite understand what kind of values go where.

Ah, there's my problem. I don't know what the Native editor is. Nor why that would prevent automatic staging. Nor have I actually tried it with universal Cargo Deck.

As for Atlantis, there's a scenario with Atlantis as a payload (the S-IC Series-burn scenario in Velcro Saturns), plenty with it as a parallel-burn stage, and several as a payload in Atlantis (see the Shuttle-Centaur scenario).
 

T.Neo

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Sputnik, Could you code Velcro to shut down engines at over 1000x time accel? It would prevent the rocket flying off into deep space during long cruises.
 

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Would it be possible to configure SERIESBURN, PARALLELBURN, BOOSTERBURN, etc, in the scn editor?
 

sputnik

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The time compression bugfix I've been procrastinating on; should be easy to do, and I've been planning to get to it. Real life has intervened, that's all.

Making the thing work with the scneditor has always been my next planned upgrade, but it remains to be seen if this will even work. The Velcro engine is built on the assumption that everything gets configured once, at startup; doing it multiple times during execution will probably require some substantial rework and debugging.
 

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Making the thing work with the scneditor has always been my next planned upgrade

:speakcool:

Thanks for the update, sputnik.
 

Usonian

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Sputnik,
For my Voyager addon, I am attempting to assemble a TitanIIIE entirely from Velcro parts. The Voyager has a propulsion module that I want initiated from the start. If the propulsion module is generated as a payload then the IMFD or TransX data guiding the earlier stages won't transfer -- the final PM stage would be unguided.

It's turning into quite a frame-rate-eating stack of fully initiated vessels! Velcro rockets can be stacked beside or below a CVEL Titan. I don't suppose there is any way of stacking an initiated vessel on top of a CVEL.

Thoughts?
 

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flytandem posted a technique for transferring a TransX plan from a launcher to an upper stage or payload here:
http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?p=82204

Interesting, but a little "iffy." I will definitely give this a try once my addon is up and flying. Hope it works with Spacecraft3 vessels.

This all started when I decided to learn TransX and do slingshots. I was using Flytandem's tutorial, flying the Delta Glider on Voyager 2 timeline and flight path. The tutorial is great, but executing a real-life 1970s flight profile in a 23rd century fantasy ship was making me a bit crazy. And so began another round of obsessive Orbiter reaserch, model building, configuring and testing.... (I gotta get this monkey off my back some day. Is there an Orbiter Twelve Step program?)

I also should thank you for bringing the Chapman Challenges to my attention. Voyager is very much in the same vain. The main Dv thrust comes from four 0.9 Newton thrusters! If a "foothold" was available in space I could push the vehicle faster by hand. It's going to be a different experience from flying the Delta Flyer. Everything hinges on an accurate injection burn.
 

Usonian

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Flyer, Glider, whatever -- it's always been just a trainer to me ;)
 

sputnik

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I see I've sadly neglected this area.

Usonian, you can't have an instantiated payload attached to a CVEL payload, because, as you guessed, the CVEL payload doesn't "exist" yet. No way around it. So if you need something running at the start, the whole stack will have to be, and you'll use attachments (SERIESBURN) to hold them together.

It's turtles all the way down.

Eveningsky339, did you get your question answered? The Dyna-Soar payload needs to move up and down with the Dyna-Soar itself; move it higher up, the payload goes with.
You need to make certain there's no Fairing or LES that could strip off your payload (that'd be bad!)
 

sputnik

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Apollo Direct Ascent

I've long thought about Velcro'ing together an Apollo Direct Ascent mission, but this is the first time I'd gone and done so.

The groundrule was no new meshes or .cfg's, but I had to break it to make some add-on landing legs for the Apollo CSM.

Still, it's otherwise off-the-shelf stuff. Not very realistic, but if, perhaps, around 1967 or 1968 it had been decided that the LM or LOR wouldn't work, perhaps upgunning the Saturn V into a near-Nova-class booster and adding legs and a descent "crasher" stage, perhaps a Direct Ascent mission could have been cobbled together.

The "crasher" stage is the six-engine S-IV stage from the Saturn-I.

Propellant margin is tight all around, but it CAN be done...I have!


Requires Velcro Rockets and Velcro Saturns, of course. And AMSO too.
 

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