Velcro Rockets

eveningsky339

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Eveningsky339, did you get your question answered? The Dyna-Soar payload needs to move up and down with the Dyna-Soar itself; move it higher up, the payload goes with.
You need to make certain there's no Fairing or LES that could strip off your payload (that'd be bad!)
Thanks sputnik. You're the best!
 

Usonian

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Thanks sputnik. You're the best!

Agreed! I had a great time putting together a Titan III-E Centaur for my Voyager addon. The Velcro Autopilot works very nicely. I made my own fairing with custom texture taken from a hi-res photo of the Voyager 2 liftoff.

I love the flexibility Velcro offers.
 

eveningsky339

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Uh-oh, I think I broke something...

Orbiter CTDs when using any velcro rockets or a few select CVEL Titans scenarios. I don't recall doing anything to make it do so. Looks like I need to do some tinkering.
 

Usonian

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Uh-oh, I think I broke something...


Nothing beats a fresh install (of everything). I keep a clean copy of Orbiter (and Orbiter Sound) on a thumb drive with everything configured the way I like it. A fresh Orbiter install is just a copy click away.

Also, I find Velcro to be pretty tough to get just right, but it's worth the effort.

------------edit-------------

Speaking of broken:

Sputnik, have you tried the Beta version of Orbiter 2009? I tried my Voyager add-on, and the Velcro Titan launcher worked, but the performance was quite different (diminished). I think it was mostly in the autopilot.

ProjectX-15 (Spacecraft3.dll) performance is unchanged.

Just thought I'd mention it.
 
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eveningsky339

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Looks like my entire Vandenberg base.cfg was somehow altered. Changed it and everything is fine now. :cheers:
 

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Velcro Atlas assembly tests

This may seem pretty lame to the more veteran Orbinauts, but I am conducting some very simple tests to gauge my understanding of Velcro commands. I am new to Orbiter and very, very new to Velcro Rockets, but enjoying myself immensely.

Kind of like my own Mercury/Gemini program -- alot that I do not know, and willing to bite off very small chunks at a time. In that vein I am posting a couple very simple pics studying rocket assembly using Velcro/CVEL commands in the SCN file. Taking plenty of screen shots has helped build my understanding and thought sharing some would help others who are at a similar stage.

My study program will have various phases:

Rocket / Payload Configuration Assembly
- study what parts go where, location and mass parameters
- study differences between STAGE command and SERIESBurn, Parallel,etc.
Fairing Separation
- study AmbientPressure, added velocity vector
Ascent Profile and Orbital BuildUp
- study the effects of MinPitch, PitchMultiple, etc
Payload weight and performance
- study performance of various rockets and boosters for various payload weights and sizes

Please feel free to critique. And thank you Sputnik, et. all, for such wonderful tools and guidance. you guys are great!





 

garyw

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Just an idle question - I've got the Velcro rockets drop tanks added to my F-15. Is there anyway to NOT automatically jettison them when they are empty?

Thanks.
 

Linguofreak

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I'm trying to put together a Manned Venus flyby mission using the Velcro Saturn stack, the Velcro Service module, and a CFG command module of my own making. Since I need to dock the CSM to the S-IVB before TVI, I put a docking port on the S-IVB, and then tried putting "GETDOCKINGPORTS 1" under the Service module's entry in the SCN file to get the SM to use the docking port I'd put on the CM. But when I jettison the CSM from the S-IVB to try to do T&D, I get "Device not available" from docking MFD, and no docking ports show up in the docking port revealer either. When I jettison the CM from the SM, the docking port is there. Any help on getting GETDOCKINGPORTS to work?

Here's my SCN file:

Code:
BEGIN_DESC



END_DESC



BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT

  System Sol

  Date MJD 40233.0458326620

END_ENVIRONMENT



BEGIN_FOCUS

  Ship S-IVb

END_FOCUS



BEGIN_CAMERA

  TARGET S-IVb

  MODE Cockpit

  FOV 50.00

END_CAMERA



BEGIN_HUD

  TYPE Surface

END_HUD



BEGIN_MFD Left

  TYPE User

  MODE Burn Time MFD

END_MFD


BEGIN_SHIPS

SM:Velcro\ApolloSM

  STATUS Orbiting Earth

  RPOS 1600808.96 2004365.55 6007146.33

  RVEL -7552.495 1714.483 1128.664

  AROT 58.63 68.62 -51.27

  ATTACHED 2:0,S-IVb

  PRPLEVEL 0:0.998

  THLEVEL 1:0.000 2:0.000 11:0.000 12:0.000 15:0.000 16:0.000

  NAVFREQ 0 0

  CONFIGURATION 0

  PRIMEBOOSTER 1

  CENTERTHRUST 0

  IGNITENEXT 0

  JETT_ON_MECO 0

  PADBIAS 1.000

  CAMERA 0.000 0.000 20.000

  TGT_HEADING 95.000

  PAYLOAD CM Runabout ApolloCM 0.0 0.0 3.0 5809.0 0.0 1.0
  GETDOCKINGPORTS 1

END

S-IVb:Velcro/s4b

  STATUS Orbiting Earth

  RPOS 1600827.50 2004359.35 6007142.55

  RVEL -7552.495 1714.483 1128.664

  AROT 58.63 68.62 -51.27

  PRPLEVEL 0:0.690

  THLEVEL 1:0.000 2:0.000 11:0.000 12:0.000 15:0.000 16:0.000

  IDS 0:589 100

  NAVFREQ 0 0

  CONFIGURATION 0

  PRIMEBOOSTER 1

  CENTERTHRUST 0

  COUNTINGDOWN 1

  PADBIAS 1.000

  CAMERA 0.000 0.000 40.000

  SLA 4 -2.00 2.00 0.00

  TGT_HEADING 95.000

  SERIESBURN 0 SM 0.0000 0.0000 -8.2000 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000 0.0000 1.0000 0.0000

  PAYLOAD Ring Velcro/Parts/S4b_upr_transition Velcro/Parts/S4b_upr_transition 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00

  PAYLOAD SLA1 Velcro/Parts/SLA01 Velcro/Parts/SLA01 0.00 0.00 -52.00 3500.00 0.00 0.00

  PAYLOAD SLA2 Velcro/Parts/SLA02 Velcro/Parts/SLA02 0.00 0.00 -52.00 3500.00 0.00 0.00

  PAYLOAD SLA3 Velcro/Parts/SLA03 Velcro/Parts/SLA03 0.00 0.00 -52.00 3500.00 0.00 0.00

  PAYLOAD SLA4 Velcro/Parts/SLA04 Velcro/Parts/SLA04 0.00 0.00 -52.00 3500.00 0.00 0.00

END

S-II:Velcro/s2

  STATUS Orbiting Earth

  RPOS 1682988.46 1973196.19 5975187.62

  RVEL -6730.386 1414.099 845.305

  AROT 35.09 49.21 -73.34

  NAVFREQ 0 0

  CONFIGURATION 1

  PRIMEBOOSTER 1

  CENTERTHRUST 0

  COUNTINGDOWN 1

  PADBIAS 1.00

  CAMERA 0.00 0.00 60.00

  TGT_HEADING 95.00

  PAYLOAD Int2 Velcro/Parts/s2_s4bint Velcro/Parts/s2_s4bint 0.00 0.00 0.00 8000.00 0.00 0.00

END

s1cinter:Velcro/s1cinter

  STATUS Orbiting Earth

  RPOS 3189620.65 1419620.41 5329249.75

  RVEL -363.736 -114.419 132.466

  AROT -165.38 32.88 77.30

  NAVFREQ 0 0

  CONFIGURATION 1

  PRIMEBOOSTER 1

  CENTERTHRUST 0

  COUNTINGDOWN 1

  PADBIAS 1.00

  CAMERA 0.00 0.00 90.00

  TGT_HEADING 95.00

END

S-1C:Velcro/S1C

  STATUS Landed Earth

  POS -74.1332545 32.5738161

  HEADING 75.37

  NAVFREQ 0 0

  CONFIGURATION 1

  PRIMEBOOSTER 1

  CENTERTHRUST 0

  COUNTINGDOWN 1

  PADBIAS 1.00

  CAMERA 0.00 0.00 90.00

  TGT_HEADING 95.00

END

LES:Velcro/Parts/ApolloLES

  STATUS Orbiting Earth

  RPOS 1481368.17 2968688.38 8357491.39

  RVEL -5642.823 3191.197 5856.616

  AROT 26.28 22.59 -100.24

  VROT -0.00 -0.00 56.61

  CONFIGURATION 1

  PRIMEBOOSTER 1

  CENTERTHRUST 0

  COUNTINGDOWN 1

  PADBIAS 1.00

  TGT_HEADING 52.14

END

END_SHIPS



BEGIN_ExtMFD

END
 

sputnik

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The problem is that you're trying to grab a docking port from a vessel which doesn't actually exist, since your payload is carried as a CVEL. GETDOCKINGPORTS, to the extent that it works at all, doesn't work on a CVEL payload. You'll need to instantiate it and use SERIESBURN. Also, the CM will have to be declared BEFORE the SM in the .scn file.
 

Linguofreak

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Tried that. Now Orbiter terminates with a "critical error" when I try to jettison the CSM from the stack and tells me to see the log, which tells me that it can't find the cfg file for "Velcro/Parts/S4b_upr_transition". I can confirm that no such CFG file exists, but

[rant at insane, idiotic computer] the part about that being a "critical error" worthy of termination I know is total poppycock, because the thing ran perfectly before I put the command module into the file, and I didn't change a thing in the S-IVB entry, which is where the line callilng the S4b upper transition is. And it still runs perfectly with the Saturn V AMSO scenario, which includes the same line in the same place. Which tells me that it is obviously not a problem that the config file for the upper transition is missing, otherwise those scenarios would crash too. And of course removing the line just results in a whitescreen, followed by Windows killing Orbiter and asking to send an error report. [/rant at insane, idiotic computer]

:compbash::compbash2::compbash::compbash2:

Anyways, here's the SCN file as it is currently

Code:
BEGIN_DESC



END_DESC



BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT

  System Sol

  Date MJD 40233.0458326620

END_ENVIRONMENT



BEGIN_FOCUS

  Ship S-IVb

END_FOCUS



BEGIN_CAMERA

  TARGET S-IVb

  MODE Cockpit

  FOV 50.00

END_CAMERA



BEGIN_HUD

  TYPE Surface

END_HUD



BEGIN_MFD Left

  TYPE User

  MODE Burn Time MFD

END_MFD


BEGIN_SHIPS
CM:ApolloCM
  STATUS Landed Earth
  BASE Cape Canaveral:6
  HEADING 0.00
  TGT_HEADING 095.0
  FUEL 1.000

SM:Velcro\ApolloSM

  STATUS Orbiting Earth

  RPOS 1600808.96 2004365.55 6007146.33

  RVEL -7552.495 1714.483 1128.664

  AROT 58.63 68.62 -51.27

  ATTACHED 2:0,S-IVb

  PRPLEVEL 0:0.998

  THLEVEL 1:0.000 2:0.000 11:0.000 12:0.000 15:0.000 16:0.000

  NAVFREQ 0 0

  CONFIGURATION 0

  PRIMEBOOSTER 1

  CENTERTHRUST 0

  IGNITENEXT 0

  JETT_ON_MECO 0

  PADBIAS 1.000

  CAMERA 0.000 0.000 20.000

  TGT_HEADING 95.000

  SERIESBURN 0 CM 0.0 0.0 -3 0.0 1.0 0.0
  GETDOCKINGPORTS 1

END

S-IVb:Velcro/s4b

  STATUS Orbiting Earth

  RPOS 1600827.50 2004359.35 6007142.55

  RVEL -7552.495 1714.483 1128.664

  AROT 58.63 68.62 -51.27

  PRPLEVEL 0:0.690

  THLEVEL 1:0.000 2:0.000 11:0.000 12:0.000 15:0.000 16:0.000

  IDS 0:589 100

  NAVFREQ 0 0

  CONFIGURATION 0

  PRIMEBOOSTER 1

  CENTERTHRUST 0

  COUNTINGDOWN 1

  PADBIAS 1.000

  CAMERA 0.000 0.000 40.000

  SLA 4 -2.00 2.00 0.00

  TGT_HEADING 95.000

  SERIESBURN 0 SM 0.0000 0.0000 -8.2000 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000 0.0000 1.0000 0.0000
  PAYLOAD Ring Velcro/Parts/S4b_upr_transition Velcro/Parts/S4b_upr_transition 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0.0 1.0

  PAYLOAD SLA1 Velcro/Parts/SLA01 Velcro/Parts/SLA01 0.00 0.00 -52.00 3500.00 0.00 0.00

  PAYLOAD SLA2 Velcro/Parts/SLA02 Velcro/Parts/SLA02 0.00 0.00 -52.00 3500.00 0.00 0.00

  PAYLOAD SLA3 Velcro/Parts/SLA03 Velcro/Parts/SLA03 0.00 0.00 -52.00 3500.00 0.00 0.00

  PAYLOAD SLA4 Velcro/Parts/SLA04 Velcro/Parts/SLA04 0.00 0.00 -52.00 3500.00 0.00 0.00

END

S-II:Velcro/s2

  STATUS Orbiting Earth

  RPOS 1682988.46 1973196.19 5975187.62

  RVEL -6730.386 1414.099 845.305

  AROT 35.09 49.21 -73.34

  NAVFREQ 0 0

  CONFIGURATION 1

  PRIMEBOOSTER 1

  CENTERTHRUST 0

  COUNTINGDOWN 1

  PADBIAS 1.00

  CAMERA 0.00 0.00 60.00

  TGT_HEADING 95.00

  PAYLOAD Int2 Velcro/Parts/s2_s4bint Velcro/Parts/s2_s4bint 0.00 0.00 0.00 8000.00 0.00 0.00

END

s1cinter:Velcro/s1cinter

  STATUS Orbiting Earth

  RPOS 3189620.65 1419620.41 5329249.75

  RVEL -363.736 -114.419 132.466

  AROT -165.38 32.88 77.30

  NAVFREQ 0 0

  CONFIGURATION 1

  PRIMEBOOSTER 1

  CENTERTHRUST 0

  COUNTINGDOWN 1

  PADBIAS 1.00

  CAMERA 0.00 0.00 90.00

  TGT_HEADING 95.00

END

S-1C:Velcro/S1C

  STATUS Landed Earth

  POS -74.1332545 32.5738161

  HEADING 75.37

  NAVFREQ 0 0

  CONFIGURATION 1

  PRIMEBOOSTER 1

  CENTERTHRUST 0

  COUNTINGDOWN 1

  PADBIAS 1.00

  CAMERA 0.00 0.00 90.00

  TGT_HEADING 95.00

END

LES:Velcro/Parts/ApolloLES

  STATUS Orbiting Earth

  RPOS 1481368.17 2968688.38 8357491.39

  RVEL -5642.823 3191.197 5856.616

  AROT 26.28 22.59 -100.24

  VROT -0.00 -0.00 56.61

  CONFIGURATION 1

  PRIMEBOOSTER 1

  CENTERTHRUST 0

  COUNTINGDOWN 1

  PADBIAS 1.00

  TGT_HEADING 52.14

END

END_SHIPS



BEGIN_ExtMFD

END
 

sputnik

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Hmm. The problem is that the S4b transition does indeed have no .cfg file, because it SHOULD never be jettisoned. For whatever reason, it is...instead of the SERIESBURN vessel. I don't know why that is.

However, this line is definitely wrong:

ATTACHED 2:0,S-IVb

The Velcro Rockets code makes and separates all the attachments itself with the SERIESBURN, etc commands. There should never be a separate ATTACHED in the .scn file that duplicates these attachments.
Try wiping that out and see if it behaves better.
 

Linguofreak

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Hmm. The problem is that the S4b transition does indeed have no .cfg file, because it SHOULD never be jettisoned. For whatever reason, it is...instead of the SERIESBURN vessel. I don't know why that is.

However, this line is definitely wrong:

ATTACHED 2:0,S-IVb

The Velcro Rockets code makes and separates all the attachments itself with the SERIESBURN, etc commands. There should never be a separate ATTACHED in the .scn file that duplicates these attachments.
Try wiping that out and see if it behaves better.

Nope...
 

sputnik

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Okay, had a couple other thoughts:

You might try commenting out the PAYLOAD line with the s4b ring...see what happens.

Are you SURE you've got the right file locations for vessels? I note you're using the Velcro/SM, but CM is in the main (/Config/Vessels) directory. It's there, right?

Hey, why is the CM still on the ground when the rest of the stack is flying? It's not even lifted by the Velcro code.

Uh-oh...I think I see the problem. The CM has no END at the end of the vessel specification. This will give all kinds of bizarre problems.
 

Linguofreak

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Okay, had a couple other thoughts:

You might try commenting out the PAYLOAD line with the s4b ring...see what happens.

Are you SURE you've got the right file locations for vessels? I note you're using the Velcro/SM, but CM is in the main (/Config/Vessels) directory. It's there, right?

Yup.

Hey, why is the CM still on the ground when the rest of the stack is flying? It's not even lifted by the Velcro code.

That's because you told me that it had to actually be in the SCN file, and on series burn instead of payload, so I wrote it back in, but wrote it in on the ground knowing the velcro code would lift it at the start of the scenario, because I didn't want to mess around with inserting state vectors. The entire CM section, and the line calling it from the SM, is hand written, the rest of the file (everything in orbit), is a scenario save.

Uh-oh...I think I see the problem. The CM has no END at the end of the vessel specification. This will give all kinds of bizarre problems.

Oh.

*facepalms*

That was it. Everything works now...Frankly, I'm surprised the scenario even loaded. Thanks...
 

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Hi! I've just found that nice Velcro Rockets... So I installed EELV and find nice Delta 4 Heavy, loaded provided simple scenario, set ext view from gr. camera + extmfds(surf+orb)... and problems started. Autopilot on. Lauch Vehicles -

1Fight = not enough Dv to reach orbit (burn in atmo). I've discovered that after LRB seb i can get 10ms2 or 20ms2 o_0
2-3F = CTD "memory can't be written" on near the same point - maybe it was fairing sep or LRB.

2 flights later with F8 view - nominal. Apo - 300km, Pea - 20km (circulisation burn as always :) )

Another issue. Ground view. F1(to HUD) - O - F1 (very quick) - rocket will loose first GEMs :D or not start

Also Delta II wont reach orbit with autopilot.

Orb+S+UMMU+AMSO+ShFleet+ExpPack

Thanks
 
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sputnik

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Fixerger,

I'm afraid I don't know what to do with that. Can you fly the rockets to orbit manually?

You wouldn't be by chance using Orbiter 2009, would you? This would be expected behavior in that case.
 
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