Question Virtual Reality

unknown_orbiter

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I'm strongly considering developing virtual reality (e.g. Vive, Rift, etc.) compatibility with Orbiter.

Is there anything in the works for this already, or is there interest to start such a project?
 

4throck

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Is anyone really using such devices?
Reminds me a bit of "3D glasses" from a few years back.

Once you put on a VR headset, how do you see the mouse and keyboard?
Orbiter relies on those.

Don't take me wrong, playing a bit of devils advocate here :hmm:
 

Urwumpe

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I would love to test it, but I neither have the hardware. Its a tad bit expensive regarding my plans for 2017.

---------- Post added at 11:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 AM ----------

Once you put on a VR headset, how do you see the mouse and keyboard?
Orbiter relies on those.

Could be fixed by plugin.
 

Artlav

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Hm, i guess i came closest to doing this so far.
OGLA engine had Oculus Rift support since before decoupling from Orbiter, and i found that it is only situationally playable.

In Spaceway, which have similar controls and physics to Orbiter, VR worked quite well when constrained by a scenario or a challenge that lets you use a simple controller.

I.e. here is one where you had to land a rocket chair that failed halfway to orbit.


All you need to control it is a USB keypad, on which you find the right keys by touch (5 have a notch).
I tried that out on a few dozen people, and most found this intuitive (only two survived the landing so far).

Anything more complex than that, and you would need to switch MFDs, look at your trajectory from outside view, interact with something, and so on, and the controls become a big problem.

One solution would be to have a virtual "HUD" plane to project mouse on, but most people still can't type blindly, and that still doesn't solve the nausea induced by free moving camera in VR (walking or looking at things from external view).

TL;DR: Adding Oculus compatibility is trivial, making it playable is a nightmare.
 

4throck

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One solution would be to have a virtual "HUD" plane to project mouse on, but most people still can't type blindly, and that still doesn't solve the nausea induced by free moving camera in VR (walking or looking at things from external view).

That's what I guessed. Once you put a VR helmet, you are blind.
Nausea may come from lag and unrealistic FOV / depth perception, as far as I can tell.

A better approach would be a direct viewing* 3D monitor with a touch display.
Can't figure out why there aren't any.


*For a seated user finding the sweet spot for a good 3D view is not a problem. If was worse for a mobile like the Nintendo 3DS and still it worked fine.
 

unknown_orbiter

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The issue with not being able to see a keyboard is easily remedied by implementing virtual windows w/ controls within the mod, such as those demonstrated in this video:

It would be relatively trivial to develop a virtual "control pad" which would provide you with all of the same controls you would use on a keyboard.

Combine this with a simple joystick and you have a fully immersed environment.

Granted, this is only practical in 3D cockpits, of which there are unfortunately few of.

But I'm definitely excited to implement this even if its simply for my own pleasure.
 

Hielor

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Is anyone really using such devices?
Reminds me a bit of "3D glasses" from a few years back.

Once you put on a VR headset, how do you see the mouse and keyboard?
Orbiter relies on those.

Don't take me wrong, playing a bit of devils advocate here :hmm:
Absolutely. The HTC Vive was a complete game-changer for how I play games. 2d games just aren't as interesting anymore.

I would love to be able to play Orbiter in VR, but it would probably need a craft that had been specifically developed to have a fully-usable VC with controls large enough and spaced far enough apart for Vive wands or Touch controllers to use them.
 

4throck

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I see that it might be interesting for VCs, but doing them is not trivial in Orbiter.
I started some work on Gemini and it's a pain.
Even with minimal detail, all those switches make for a complex 3D model.

I guess that for an EVA VR should be fantastic, specially now with 3D terrain!
 

unknown_orbiter

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I really want to implement this mod, however the lack of a virtual cockpit in the DGIV makes me not think it's worth it. I use that ship the absolute most.
 

Donamy

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A VR astronaut would be cool, or a VR cupola.
 

Hlynkacg

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Unfortunately VR using the basic Orbiter API is impossible due to the fact that orbiter does not allow you to define camera rotation axes. As such, tilting your head would break the sim.

If you did implement VR it would have to be through a dedicated graphics client that uses it's own camera control functions.
 

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Or by a plugin module....
 

Hlynkacg

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I don't think a simple plugin module would cut it. As I said above, the API as written does not allow you to define camera rotations in anything other than the local X and Y axes. I've submitted "Ability to define camera rotation matrices" as a feature request but I suspect that it's a ways down on the Professor's priority list.

Edit: I actually made a simple head tracking rig for a school project a while back and ran into this precise problem trying to get it to work with orbiter.
 
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Hielor

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Why not just rotate the entire world? :p
 

Hlynkacg

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Why not just rotate the entire world? :p

I experimented with rotating the spacecraft along with the camera to correct for off axis movements but it wrought havoc with things like docking-ports and touchdown points.
 

Artlav

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orbiter does not allow you to define camera rotation axes
I used to reply to such statements by releasing add-ons that do the supposed impossible... Times sure have changed.

The idea is that if you can't convince someone to do things, then knock him out and convince him via brain surgery.

In case of orbiter, it stores camera parameters in it's memory image, and they are not too hard to find once you trace the various camera setting API calls.
Once found, just write to the setting directly, bypassing the API.
That's how i made TelescopeMFD, for example.

However, i don't see how it could help - you would need a graphics client to add VR support anyway, and a client can define it's own camera, so why bother?
 

jedidia

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The idea is that if you can't convince someone to do things, then knock him out and convince him via brain surgery.

Remind me never to do anything to be targeted for 'convincing' by you! :lol:
 

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If this camera stuff doesn't work right, how does the trackIR plugin work?
 

Hielor

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If this camera stuff doesn't work right, how does the trackIR plugin work?
The TrackIR plugin doesn't allow you to rotate your head around the z-axis AFAIK, so it doesn't run into the issue.
 
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