Updates WFIRST Nancy Grace Roman Space Telescope Updates

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Universe Today: Surprise! NASA Gets Two ‘Free’ Hubble-like Space Telescopes

SPACE.com: U.S. Spy Satellite Agency Gives NASA 2 Space Telescopes

collectSPACE: U.S. spy satellite agency gives NASA two space telescopes

Discovery News: Two Powerful Spy Space 'Scopes 'Gifted' to NASA

Space News: NASA Gets Two Military Spy Telescopes for Astronomy [The Washington Post]

Washington Post: NASA gets two military spy telescopes for astronomy:
The U.S. government’s secret space program has decided to give NASA two telescopes as big as, and even more powerful than, the Hubble Space Telescope.

Designed for surveillance, the telescopes from the National Reconnaissance Office were no longer needed for spy missions and can now be used to study the heavens.

They have 2.4-meter (7.9 feet) mirrors, just like the Hubble. They also have an additional feature that the civilian space telescopes lack: A maneuverable secondary mirror that makes it possible to obtain more focused images. These telescopes will have 100 times the field of view of the Hubble, according to David Spergel, a Princeton astrophysicist and co-chair of the National Academies advisory panel on astronomy and astrophysics.

The surprise announcement Monday is a reminder that NASA isn’t the only space enterprise in the government — and isn’t even the best funded. NASA official Michael Moore gave some hint of what a Hubble-class space telescope might do if used for national security:

“With a Hubble here you could see a dime sitting on top of the Washington Monument.”

NASA officials stressed that they do not have a program to launch even one telescope at the moment, and that at the very earliest, under reasonable budgets, it would be 2020 before one of the two gifted telescopes could be in order. Asked whether anyone at NASA was popping champagne, the agency’s head of science, John Grunsfeld, answered, “We never pop champagne here; our budgets are too tight.”

But this is definitely a game-changer for NASA’s space science program. The unexpected gift offers NASA an opportunity to resurrect a plan to launch a new telescope to study the mysterious “dark energy” that is causing the universe’s expansion to accelerate.

The scientific community had made the dark energy telescope its top priority in the latest “decadal survey” of goals in astronomy and astrophysics.

But the hoped-for telescope has been blocked by a lack of funding, in large part because of cost overruns on the James Webb Space Telescope, which is still being readied for a possible launch later this decade. A new space telescope could also serve as a kind of scout for the Webb, Spergel said.

“It would be a great discovery telescope for where Webb should look in addition to doing the work on dark energy,” Spergel said.

The two new telescopes — which so far don’t even have names, other than Telescope One and Telescope Two — would be ready to go into space but for two hitches. First, they don’t have instruments. There are no cameras, spectrographs or other instruments that a space telescope typically needs. Second, they don’t have a program, a mission or a staff behind them. They’re just hardware.

“The hardware is a significant cost item and it’s a significant schedule item. The thing that takes the longest to build is the telescope,” Spergel said. He added, however, “A big cost of any mission is always just people. One of the reason that James Webb has cost so much is that when it takes longer to complete any piece of it, you keep paying the engineers working on it, and you have these big marching-army costs.”

NASA’s windfall takes the pain out of the planned demise of the Hubble, which has been repaired in orbit five times. NASA does not plan any more repair missions, and the Hubble will gradually lose the ability to maintain its position and focus. At some point NASA will de-orbit the Hubble and it will crash into the Pacific.

“Instead of losing a terrific telescope, you now have two telescopes even better to replace it with,” Spergel said.

{...}
 

Izack

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Fantastic! I hope they can fit them onto the launch schedule soon. They'll be a much, much greater boon as scientific instruments than they ever would be watching the Chinese pick their noses. :)
 

astrosammy

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I thought it would be two telecopes already in orbit when I saw the thread title, but well, this is also great. :speakcool:
 

Unstung

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If NASA can't get the funding to refit these telescopes, what other programs must the agency cut into? This donation is great, but NASA just doesn't have much money.
 

anemazoso

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Sounds like a job for... Ta da! Falcon Heavy!!

---------- Post added at 05:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:42 PM ----------

Time for congress to pull their thumb out of their posterior and take the $300 million back out of the SLS budget and buy two Falcon heavies!!
 

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Just remember just because they have extremely powerful optics does not mean NASA can just plop them on a Falcon or Atlas and have Hubble 2.0

They wont work the same as hubble and the costs to modify them for space use will be quite extreme. Worse support for programs such as the JWST is already low so I somehow doubt these will get much funding for anything.

I may not even be much of a gift if you think about it. NRO gets to pass the buck on the costs to maintain them to NASA.

Edit: And to be honest in my opinion these days these massive hyper expensive orbital telescopes just arent doing it. Hubble was supposed to inspire classrooms across the nations yet instead students just yawned at the textbook photos. Compared to programs such as MER which for the puny price tag gave a great deal of data that we can actually make use of this century. Worse still the ground and air based telescopes are starting to gain results BETTER than orbital based and for a fraction of the program costs.

Also I seriously do not like this way of going big in order to force politics into the equation when it comes time to pull the plug on the program. Very VSE like.
 
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Keatah

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I bet these telescopes can see air density changes .. when I fart!

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Well, why would the NRO give these away? They could be unusable because something far superior is in use; another telescope or some altogether different technology related to the X-37. Maybe they're costing too much to maintain in storage? Though I don't see how that'd be a burden. Rent a storage shed and post a guard. Done.
 

Zachstar

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Sounds like a job for... Ta da! Falcon Heavy!!

---------- Post added at 05:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:42 PM ----------

Time for congress to pull their thumb out of their posterior and take the $300 million back out of the SLS budget and buy two Falcon heavies!!

Why? Don't get me wrong I think SLS will never work. Yet atleast it is more useful to the future than more Hubbles.
 

boogabooga

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Is it a little perturbing that for all the politics that goes into NASA's budget (and those old enough can remember the politics when Hubble was having problems when it first launched), the NRO is so well funded (and without question) that it can just give away TWO Hubble sized satellites?
 

Zachstar

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I bet these telescopes can see air density changes .. when I fart!

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Well, why would the NRO give these away? They could be unusable because something far superior is in use; another telescope or some altogether different technology related to the X-37. Maybe they're costing too much to maintain in storage? Though I don't see how that'd be a burden. Rent a storage shed and post a guard. Done.

Not that simple AT ALL...

First of all. You can't put flight hardware "in a shed" at 1G and under earth air pressure. They require support structures and a very clean and regulated environment.

2nd just because they are giving it away. This is still NRO hardware and under ITAR. Not to mention likely many parts classified. You can't just post a guard and expect it not to be affected anyway. The steps they have to take cost a great deal of money.

Is it a little perturbing that for all the politics that goes into NASA's budget (and those old enough can remember the politics when Hubble was having problems when it first launched), the NRO is so well funded (and without question) that it can just give away TWO Hubble sized satellites?

They are giving them away because they are now useless to the NROs mission and because the NRO would just have to pay to keep them in storage or decommission them.

There is a great deal of politics when it comes to NASA because lately it has become a one stop shop for corrupt deals and claims such as Safe Simple Soon.
 

Keatah

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Why? Don't get me wrong I think SLS will never work. Yet atleast it is more useful to the future than more Hubbles.

Mmmmnn.. perhaps.. I've always been more interested in the pretty pictures and big science that comes from Hubble data. Much more than seeing illustrations of people run around Mars. The Hubble science is real, it's here, now, today.

Mars and SLS is fantasy. New administration means new plans, that never get off the ground.
 

N_Molson

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Interesting, especially if that pair of telescopes could be used in "tandem" to get even better resolutions.

Little concrete information to speculate on, though. Seems everything is a pretext to bash NASA those days. Good attitude.
 

Keatah

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Not that simple AT ALL...

First of all. You can't put flight hardware "in a shed" at 1G and under earth air pressure. They require support structures and a very clean and regulated environment.

2nd just because they are giving it away. This is still NRO hardware and under ITAR. Not to mention likely many parts classified. You can't just post a guard and expect it not to be affected anyway. The steps they have to take cost a great deal of money.

Why not that simple. Put it in a storage shed, build a scaffold around it to support it. And seal the whole thing with hefty plastic baggies. Pump in nitrogen to outgas the oxygen. This doesn't need to be a million dollar project!

---------- Post added at 08:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:35 PM ----------

Interesting, especially if that pair of telescopes could be used in "tandem" to get even better resolutions.

Make one hella interferamometer for super parallax measurements. Since they're not designed to be serviced. Put them in orbit around the moon, away from all the atmo-gas near earth..
 

Zachstar

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Yes pretty pictures with an absolute HUGE price tag. Meanwhile rover, orbiter, and lander data cheap, useful for future manned missions, science helps in understanding Earth and its development more than pretty space pictures.

I agree that SLS is utter fantasy. Anything involving ATK needs to go. Tho I MIGHT have more hope for it if the rumored LRB side to it comes around.

Yet just throwing 300M (BTW not even close to how much it will take to launch even one of these telescopes) of it's budget towards pretty pictures isnt a solution at all. If anything that 300M should go towards aeronautical research which lately seems to have been NASA's best contribution.
 

boogabooga

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They are giving them away because they are now useless to the NROs mission and because the NRO would just have to pay to keep them in storage or decommission them.

So, we aren't going to question how NRO got to purchase two "useless" satellites in the first place? They couldn't foresee their own technological advances that would render such systems obsolete? Or they got to purchase spares that were never meant to be launched in the first place. Those things can't be cheap.
 

Keatah

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I've always thought that Rovers and Telescopes give the best bang for the buck.
 
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