Updates WFIRST Nancy Grace Roman Space Telescope Updates

[C3PO]

It's going to take years to even find the money to finish building these things.
At the same time, the military-industrial complex is so over-funded they can afford to "Trash" these.. Something's wrong here, eh?

NASA spends roughly the same on space flight as americans spend on valentines day gifts. The black space programmes spend way more money than that. Guesstimates say 10-100 times more than NASA. They have two operating (unmanned) reusable space planes and two spare "Hubbles".

 

[Keatah]

I'm just a little upset and pissed, but not surprised, it took this long to be released to public knowledge. All this "Deal-making and giving away" happened about a year ago.

Regarding the two other space planes, aside from orbital construction and repair, they can do everything the shuttle can do, and far more cost effectively.

 

[Capt_hensley]

I say NASA should setup a prize game again, get these things fixed up by commercial space agencies, launch them on whatever it takes(commercial) and let the independant agencies operate them, as long as NASA gets full rights to the data and puts it to good public use, why not?

All it takes is a well funded space agency, some NASA seed money, and backing from everyone! Leave Congress and NASA major funding out of it, press on with JWST, and the other projects NASA is funding and everyone gets happy, all at once.

 

[Zachstar]

Spaceflight Now: NASA has a mission for grounded spy telescopes

Space News: Donated Spy Satellites Could Enable Cheaper Dark Energy Mapper Mission — If NASA had the Money

NewScientist: Spy telescopes could help NASA pin down dark energy

From the space news article

Much of the funding NASA could use for that is tied up with the $8.8 billion James Webb Space Telescope, a long-delayed budget-busting astrophysics flagship that is not scheduled to launch until 2018.

These scopes wont fly this decade. If at all.

---------- Post added at 05:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:43 PM ----------

I say NASA should setup a prize game again, get these things fixed up by commercial space agencies, launch them on whatever it takes(commercial) and let the independant agencies operate them, as long as NASA gets full rights to the data and puts it to good public use, why not?

All it takes is a well funded space agency, some NASA seed money, and backing from everyone! Leave Congress and NASA major funding out of it, press on with JWST, and the other projects NASA is funding and everyone gets happy, all at once.

Tell me who will fund the billions it will take to get these scopes operating and the support teams in place? PBS?

 

[Keatah]

I wouldn't mind dropping a 20 on it.. Go kickstarter!

 

[Capt_hensley]

Tell me who will fund the billions it will take to get these scopes operating and the support teams in place? PBS?

I had none in mind, but any aerospace agency would do:

Lockheed Martin/L3 Services
Boeing Aerospace
SpaceX
Orbital Sciences Corp
Agencia Italia
European Space Agency
Ariane Space
Orbital Sciences
General Dynamics/Dyna Corp Aerospace
Northrop Grumman Aerospace
Canadian Space Agency

A partnership between any of these would work nicely, get some colleges involved as mentioned before.

NASAs seed money would be a reasonable amount along the lines of the X-Prize caliber, say <5% of the total cost which might be as little as 20 Billion to finish and launch both scopes.

I'm trying to be realistic and optimistic, I like this opportunity.

 

[RGClark]

Haven't seen it mentioned yet but these scopes can also be used for accurate asteroid search. For instance the wide field camera on the WISE mission satellite was able to find this Trojan class asteroid:

NASA's WISE Mission Finds First Trojan Asteroid Sharing Earth's Orbit.
07.27.11
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/WISE/news/wise20110727.html

The mirror on the new scopes is 100 inches compared to 16 inches for the WISE mission satellite, resulting in 6 times greater collecting area and sensitivity.
This would be quite useful for planetary defense purposes and also for the asteroid mining ventures that need to find high values asteroids that are nearby.
In fact, NASA might be able to have the satellite development be partially funded by the asteroid mining ventures.


Bob Clark

 

[orb]

Comparison of Hubble's and these two's optics in there:

The Planetary Society Blog: NRO gives NASA two hand-me-down telescopes:

{colsp=5}Hubble’s WFC3 (IR) vs. the NRO telescopes

Instrument/telescope |

FOV, arcsec​

| Angular resolution,

arcsec/pixel​

| Detector size,

pixels​

| Wavelength range,

nanometers​

WFC3 IR|

123 x 136​

|

0.13​

|

1014 x 1014​

|

850-1700​

NRO telescopes|

1800 x 1800​

(0.25 square degrees)​

|

0.11​

|

4096 x 4096​

|

920-2170​

 

[orb]

Space News: Donated Space Telescopes are Remnants of Failed NRO Program:

WASHINGTON — Two large optical telescope assemblies bequeathed to NASA by the U.S. National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) were built for a satellite imaging program that was canceled in 2005 due to lengthy delays and massive cost overruns, according to multiple sources.

{...}

Loretta DeSio, a spokeswoman for the secretive NRO, declined to identify the program for which the telescope assemblies were built. She characterized the hardware as “residual spacecraft hardware from a past program.”

But DeSio did say the hardware was built in the late 1990s and early 2000s. That time frame matches the development schedule for FIA, which was supposed to be the NRO’s next generation of optical and radar imaging satellites.

Multiple sources confirmed the telescopes were indeed left over from FIA, with one saying the hardware’s likely cost was several hundred million dollars. On NRO programs of FIA’s scale, tens of millions of dollars are spent on design work before any hardware is built, this source noted.

{...}

 

[RGClark]

Discussion of using the new telescopes for planetary defense, asteroid prospecting, and Mars orbiter satellites:

Low cost development and applications of the new NRO donated telescopes.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2012/06/low-cost-development-and-applications.html


Bob Clark

 

[Zachstar]

"Massive Cost Overruns"

NASA will not get funding to fly these anytime soon.

 

[RisingFury]

In fact, NASA might be able to have the satellite development be partially funded by the asteroid mining ventures.

Please don't contaminate this thread with wishful thinking.

 

[RGClark]

Please don't contaminate this thread with wishful thinking.

Actually, that's a big component of this forums discussions.


Bob Clark

 

[RGClark]

Discussion of using the new telescopes for planetary defense, asteroid prospecting, and Mars orbiter satellites:

Low cost development and applications of the new NRO donated telescopes.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2012/06/low-cost-development-and-applications.html


Bob Clark

Follow-up blog post discussing using the new Hubble-class scopes to search for nomad planets and hypothesized large planets at the extreme fringe of the Solar System:

Low cost development and applications of the new NRO donated telescopes, Page 2.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2012/06/low-cost-development-and-applications_12.html


Bob Clark

 

[orb]

Space News: More Details Released about NRO Telescope Donation To NASA [USA Today]

USA Today - Science Fair: NASA releases more spy telescope details

 

[RGClark]

Discussion of using distributed computing to allow the public to take part in the asteroid, new planet, and brown dwarf search:

Low cost development and applications of the new NRO donated telescopes, Page 3.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2012/06/low-cost-development-and-applications_13.html


Bob Clark

 

[orb]

SPACE.com: Spy Satellite Telescopes Donated to NASA 'Came Out of the Blue'

 

[Keatah]

Yeow . have you seen the amount of advertisements on that site? And you have to answer a questionnaire in order to read anything..

 

[RGClark]

This blog post discusses the fact that ground based scopes of the Hubble-class can be made for only $10 to $20 million and even less. And the electronics can be done for space scopes for little more than the ground-based ones.
Then if you already have the space-qualified optics and structures, as in the NRO scopes case, the rest of the space scope can be completed for little more than a ground-based one, for less than $10 to $20 million:


SUNDAY, JUNE 17, 2012
Low cost development and applications of the new NRO donated telescopes, Page 4.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2012/06/low-cost-development-and-applications_17.html

Eric Anderson co-founder of Planetary Resources, Inc. argues that taking a more commercial approach to the development of space telescopes can cut their costs in this speech at the International Space Development Conference 2012 at around 33 minutes in:

ISDC 2012 Luncheon Speaker
Eric Anderson, Planetary Resources
http://www.nss.org/resources/library/videos/ISDC12anderson.html


Bob Clark

 

[orb]

Nature: The telescopes that came in from the cold

Space News: NASA ready to name science-definition team for NRO telescopes [Nature]:

{...}

This month, NASA plans to announce a science-definition team that will embark on that assessment. The team will report by April 2013 to NASA administrator Charles Bolden on the pros, cons and costs of adapting one of the telescopes for a mission to investigate dark energy, the phenomenon thought to be accelerating the expansion of the Universe.

But astronomers are already encouraged. As the veil of secrecy surrounding the telescopes lifts, astronomers are beginning to size up the devices’ capabilities. And so far, they are liking what they see — so much so that they are now talking about tacking on an instrument that would detect extrasolar planets directly. “I think the enthusiasm has only increased as time has gone on,” says Dressler.​

{...}