Project Lunar Module "Spider" (Updated 11/01/2012)

[Hlynkacg]

While getting to fly my creations in orbiter is fun my first love was always scale models and as such I much prefer working on meshes to working on code.

To avoid getting burnt out on the subsystems and UMMU implimentation I decided to take a break and have some fun.

First up I've redone the descent stage.

Despite the added detail it actually has 4000 fewer vertices than the Beta's mesh.

and then there's this...

---------- Post added 09-05-12 at 03:32 AM ---------- Previous post was 09-04-12 at 09:02 PM ----------

The new descent stage mesh, now with paint

I've been putting off the Ascent stage because frankly, I'm not much of a 2-d artist and the complex geometries intimidate me. That said, unless I can impose upon one of you I think it's time to bite the bullet and get it done.

 

[jedidia]

I've been putting off the Ascent stage because frankly, I'm not much of a 2-d artist and the complex geometries intimidate me.

You can always make a high poly mesh and use it to bake textures, if that's what you prefer.

 

[Hlynkacg]

While baking is certainly an option, I'm not sure if I have the energy to go through and model every dent and rivet.

Even if I did, the biggest issue with the ascent stage is "unwrapping" the model.

The descent stage breaks down into simple shapes rather easily, the ascent stage not-so-much.

---------- Post added at 05:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:48 AM ----------

oh and not to hihack my own thread but I've been meaning to bug you about temprature readings.

I need a way to at least approximate engine heating/cool down but haven't been able to find any good documentation.

Likewise for things like cabin and fuel tank temp/press.

 

[4throck]

The new descent stage mesh, now with paint

I've been putting off the Ascent stage because frankly, I'm not much of a 2-d artist and the complex geometries intimidate me. That said, unless I can impose upon one of you I think it's time to bite the bullet and get it done.

Since this is a free add-on, there must be some balance between what's possible working full time and what's realistic for a hobby.
I think that you got it right for the descent stage. Do the same for the ascent and I'd say it is done. The textures could be a litle bit better, but for now just map the mesh in a way that the textures can be replaced by high resolution versions in the future (or add bump maps in visualization clients).

Until the time we have first person support in orbiter (and you can actually climb up the stairs of the LEM) mesh detail doesn't need to go into the "every bolt" category.

 

[jedidia]

Even if I did, the biggest issue with the ascent stage is "unwrapping" the model.

The descent stage breaks down into simple shapes rather easily, the ascent stage not-so-much.

Doesn't look too complicated, mostly planar maps and a few cylindrical ones, but I don't know the UV-mapping tools of Blender...

I need a way to at least approximate engine heating/cool down but haven't been able to find any good documentation.

Likewise for things like cabin and fuel tank temp/press.

In IMS it works by a lot of guesses to provide a semblance of realism. The code is very easy, what is very difficult is to get the data you need...

Code-wise, it's nothing more than adding or subtracting energy to the component, and calculating its new temperature using its heat capacity. But of course it's rather tough to calculate the heatcapacity of the LM's engines (interior is easier, just take the air, and tanks shouldn't be too much trouble too, take their contents).
Sometimes its also tough to know how much energy to add or remove... for the interior and the tanks it should be based on outer hull temperature and insulation, for the engines it's of course different.
If you need the temperatures of the engines in operating state, you have to know how efficient they are, i.e. how much heat stays in the engine and doesn't go through the nozzle (usually very few for chemical engines, at least when they operate at optimal temperature).

For pre-heating you need to know how much energy your propellant gives off when burning, burn a bit of it and add that energy to the engines. Cooldown works either actively cooled, which would require you to know the operating temperature, flowrate and exposed surface area of the coolant (or you simplify and say "my cooling system is able to carry of x Joules per second, period"), or they just cool down by radiation, in which case you only need the surface area.

As I said, the major problem will probably be to find the heat capacity of the engine (as in reality, there is not really such a thing as the heat capacity of the whole engine, nor is it of any interest, because you only care about the temperature of certain parts). When unsuccesfull, start guessing and see if the results make any sense.

 

[Tycho]

N_Molson was working on a Russian derivative of the Lunar Module a while back, which included cabin atmosphere readouts and subsystems. I won't put words into his mouth, but I'm sure he'd at least be happy to lend some advice.

 

[Hlynkacg]

Doesn't look too complicated, mostly planar maps and a few cylindrical ones, but I don't know the UV-mapping tools of Blender...

Well the forward cabin area is pretty simple, a front-on planar projection followed by a cylindrical projection.

it the midsection and aft where it gets complicated. it's very asymetrical and there are lots of odd angles that make avoiding distortions a real PITA

It doesn't really help that I wasn't giving much thought to UV meshing when I was assembling the verts either.

What I really need is a good paper model that I could scan then paint-over

In IMS it works by a lot of guesses to provide a semblance of realism. The code is very easy, what is very difficult is to get the data you need...

So i've noticed :lol:

N_Molson was working on a Russian derivative of the Lunar Module a while back, which included cabin atmosphere readouts and subsystems. I won't put words into his mouth, but I'm sure he'd at least be happy to lend some advice.

He already has actually.

 

[Hlynkacg]

Just finished unwrapping the Ascent stage.

If anyone wants to try thier hand at painting it I've attached the UV map.

 

[Hlynkacg]

Unless someone feels like whipping up something prettier. I'm gonna stick a fork in it and declare the exterior meshes done.

Barring outside input this is what the release version will look like.

Now back to working on the cockpit. (I still have the autopilot interface and 3 side panels to model and code)

PS: If you noticed the lack of lights, it;s not becaused I removed them. It's because the light switch actually works now.

 

[4throck]

The only thing that doesn't look right is the gold foil on parts of the Ascent stage. Just make them aluminum foil or plain metal gray and it's done :thumbup:

 

[Hlynkacg]

The only thing that doesn't look right is the gold foil on parts of the Ascent stage. Just make them aluminum foil or plain metal gray and it's done :thumbup:

I agree that the area around the EVA hatch looks a little off in that shot but it is what is.

ETA: I used the standard orbitter foil texture for those parts but I could mess around with the material properties to try and make it prettier.

 

[4throck]

Never noticed that :thumbup:
Standard Orbiter textures are a nice solution, and consistent with other addons.

Anyway, since this is not the original Apollo LEM, it's safe to admit that it might look somewhat different.
It happened to the Apollo Comand Module when modified for Skylab (long duration):

May I suggest that you give your CM this look?

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Unless someone feels like whipping up something prettier. I'm gonna stick a fork in it and declare the exterior meshes done.

Barring outside input this is what the release version will look like.

Now back to working on the cockpit. (I still have the autopilot interface and 3 side panels to model and code)

PS: If you noticed the lack of lights, it;s not becaused I removed them. It's because the light switch actually works now.

Looks terrific :thumbup:! I was assuming you wouldnt be leaving the exterior looking all rainbowie, but Its certainly good to know that there will be really nice textures

 

[Tycho]

I agree--the exterior texturing looks fantastic. Great work.

 

[Hlynkacg]

Been spending most of my time on autopilots, I had hoped to have the full DSKY interface up and running but it's pissing me off so I'll leave it be for the moment.

(hey I'm doing this for my entertainment right if I aint enjoying it why bother?)

Any way here's a little teaser for the guys who've been asking about UCCGO support.

 

[4throck]

Like it.

Like it a lot

(Feel free to adapt/use/enhance that Apollo remote VC mesh I made if you see fit)

 

[Grover]

is that a whole new ascent module? like an unmanned version for delivering UGCOs to the lunar surface?

a nice idea indeed!

 

[Hlynkacg]

is that a whole new ascent module? like an unmanned version for delivering UGCOs to the lunar surface?

a nice idea indeed!

Pretty much.

It's my version of the Lunar Payload Module, the unmanned half of the (canceled) APP lunar exploration missions.

ETA: Also see page 6 of...
Proposed lunar module derivatives.

 

[Hlynkacg]

Side and lower panels are in place and the basic switch routines are coded. They don't have an in game effect yet but you can click on 'em and they move.

I'm also at the point where it'll be difficult to continue without UMMU support. (No point modeling O2 consumption and cabin pressurization without a crew) This also marks the point were I'm going to start deviating from the historical design.

At the moment my panel texture and switch positions are based on a poster of the historical LEM's panel.

Orbiter doesn't model ship-to-ship comms so large portions of both panel 8 and panel 12 are useless.

The power distribution and antenna slew controls can stay but the rest?...

The plan is to cut the forward sections of 8 and 12 and replace them with a set of dials for controlling NAV and Xpnder frequencies.

I'm also gloing to move the controls for cabin pressurization and Atmosphere composition from thier historical position on thier own panel in the mid-section behind the LP to the empty space at the back of Panel 8.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Side and lower panels are in place and the basic switch routines are coded. They don't have an in game effect yet but you can click on 'em and they move.

I'm also at the point where it'll be difficult to continue without UMMU support. (No point modeling O2 consumption and cabin pressurization without a crew) This also marks the point were I'm going to start deviating from the historical design.

At the moment my panel texture and switch positions are based on a poster of the historical LEM's panel.

Orbiter doesn't model ship-to-ship comms so large portions of both panel 8 and panel 12 are useless.

The power distribution and antenna slew controls can stay but the rest?...

The plan is to cut the forward sections of 8 and 12 and replace them with a set of dials for controlling NAV and Xpnder frequencies.

I'm also gloing to move the controls for cabin pressurization and Atmosphere composition from thier historical position on thier own panel in the mid-section behind the LP to the empty space at the back of Panel 8.

No UMMU support? I would help but Its truly not that hard, particularily for someone as good at coding like you. WRT the comms, maybe you can have a code function that only activates the ATC coms in orbitersound when a Nav receiver is set to a particular channel (not taken up by any nav signals). That way, you can have 2 radio receivers, one needing to be tuned to Mission Control, the other to your landing nav beacon. (If there is one)

I dont suppose theres any way to simulate climbing up the ladder, but at least make sure the UMMU spawn point is on a Landing pad, so theres a chance for all us Orbinauts to use a quote when taking... that giant leap.

Nice work :thumbup:

By the way, dont get rid of the dummy switches. Even if they dont do anything significant, its still nice to be able to do it just to add some atmosphere to the cockpit