does most of the world really hate america

[Bullethead]

does the rest of the world hate america

Maybe not all of it, but certainly the most vocal parts of it, such as continental Europe. The reasons for this are simple:

1. We're bigger and better at everything than the continental Euros are now or ever have been. As a result, they have low self-esteem.

2. For about 2000 years, the continental Euros thought the world revolved around them and nothing else was even civilized, let alone might be a rival. Even the Brits spoke French in formal situations. Thus, the low self-esteem issue isn't something the continental Euros have gotten used to yet.

3. Continental Euros resent the fact that the US rose from nothing to the biggest world power in the course of a single lifetime (say 1880-1945), whereas it took them millennia to call themselves Great Powers.

4. Continental Euros REALLY hate it that the people in the US who accomplished this were what they considered the scum of their own societies. America was built by immigrants from Europe and their immediate descendants. Most of them came here to escape starvation and/or hopeless dead-end poverty in their Old Countries, which the Old Countries either didn't care about or were unable to fix. Oh yeah, and there were some immigrants who came here as deported criminals, back before the Revolution. In any case, the continental Euros were glad to see them go and never expected much out of them here.

5. Continental Euros also hate it that so much of their daily lives is derived from the US. Used to be, the world looked to continental Europe to set the example, but now it's the US. You can start at the top with the languages they speak (not just the fact that the French speak French today instead of German, but all the US words now in their native languages). Most of their governments are also modeled to some extent on ours, or were inspired by the example of our Revolution, or were even set up by us after we kicked out their autocratic regimes. And then there's the whole US-derived culture of clothing, the Internet, McDonalds, and all kinds of other things they use and see every minute of every day.

6. There's also the whole thing about how continental Europe largely would be still in the same condition as Afghanistan if we hadn't rebuilt the place out of our own pockets after WW2.

* * * *

I suspect that many of us in this forum are of the age when we're having to take care of our old parents in their sunset years. As such, I also suspect that many of us have encountered unexpected resentment from our old parents, because they don't like to face the fact that they've had their day and now need to rely on other people now.

It's pretty much the same thing with the US and continental Europe. That's why they hate us over there.

 

[Jarvitä]

the govermant may be trying to do that but no the american public

Agreed. This is about America (more specifically, the USA), not Americans, who are mostly real nice people, especially the ones from South America.

 

[Star explorer]

Agreed. This is about America (more specifically, the USA), not Americans, who are mostly real nice people, especially the ones from South America.

HEY!!! i ment the USA

 

[Artlav]

Hate is a big word, dislike is smaller.

Many people who hate USA got most if not all of their knowledge about that place from popular media sources, often going thru three or four levels of bias, so it's hardly a sound judgment.

What i don't like in USA way of life is the laws. Not the legal system, but the saturation of rules in the environment - notes, signs, small laws, small print, suggestions, neighbourhood watch - too many rules to live comfortably. This is a second-hand sources based opinion, and i hope to get a first-hand one around this fall.

Here in Russia a common topic among satirists is not the USA as it lives, but our people in attempts to live like Americans. An interesting example is the fact that Mcdonald's fast food stations are often referred as free public toilets, that being their significant use.

Not many people likes the wars like Iraq, Afghanistan ones, considering them to be sticking their bombs in someone else's business.

Lately, the outrageous-sounding claims of USA authorities about Georgian-Ossetian conflict does not give them more favor.

 

[Star explorer]

speaking of mcdonalds i heard they serve caviar in mcdonalds in russia

 

[adamb193]

speaking of mcdonalds i heard they serve caviar in mcdonalds in russia

Yes and they also serve saurkraut in the German McDonalds.

 

[SiberianTiger]

speaking of mcdonalds i heard they serve caviar in mcdonalds in russia

That's bull. We ate away all the caviar long ago.

 

[Notebook]

To Bullethead above:

RE your item 4.

Some of our best scum went to Australia and New Zealand. Most of them are still here.

N.

 

[astrosammy]

I rember when I was in England with my class last year. Some of my classmates said that all British people think that we are still all nazis, just because someone said "damned nazi germans" to them. Thats the same like that all americans are called stupid just because of him

.

 

[Urwumpe]

6. There's also the whole thing about how continental Europe largely would be still in the same condition as Afghanistan if we hadn't rebuilt the place out of our own pockets after WW2.

I think this is a good example with which attitude you can make sure, that European will never like you.

"Rebuild the place" is a common myth. Actually, what happened in Europe was mostly a European affair. It is a fact, that the country, which received most US aid after the war, dropped into the deepest depression, especially after the aid ended: The United Kingdom. France received nearly as much and had a pretty stable growth, though Germany managed to overtake it economically easily in the 1950s. Belgium's economy already grew before the US marshal plan, deregulating it's market already in 1944.

And even worse: This "we rebuild Europe" theory also breaks on the economic recovery of Japan: It grew nearly as fast as Europe, and that without even a cent of US aid.

So, rebuild Europe out of your own pocket? Sure the money was not enough. What was having more effect was actually something which happened in 1951. Germany, France, Italy and the Benelux countries created the European Coal and Steel Community, the precursor of the European Union - all countries which recovered extremely fast after WW2 in the 1950s.

US experts like Alan Greenspan actually contributed the economic growth in Europe to the politics of the German chancellor of that period, Ludwig Erhard, who is still considered the father of the modern German economy.

And as Germany repaid a large part of the money until 1971, so you can't even claim "out of your own pockets" - of course only as much as required by the London debts agreement.

(And as you claim to have served in the second gulf war, I suspect you have not been paying the Marshall plan out of your personal own pocket.)

So, do you think that arrogance and ignorance to your own history is doing you a favor in getting sympathy outside the USA? Even ignoring the possibility, that this nationalist vomit could even disturb US citizens who have a clearer view of the US history. For example who know about the directive JCS 1067 and the Morgenthau plan.

"The victorious Allies … delayed by several years the economic reconstruction of the war torn continent, a reconstruction which subsequently cost the US billions of dollars." (V Petrov)


-----Posted Added-----

Yes and they also serve saurkraut in the German McDonalds.

Sadly not. They sell us this annoying stuff which often tastes like made of cardboard. You should try making a burger with Coleslaw, which is the unprocessed version of Sauerkraut - really a fitting combination sometimes.

 

[to be]

Ok, this should probably be locked just about now.

 

[n0mad23]

While I appreciate and respect Bullethead's opinion, I disagree on nearly all points. Part of this is our very different backgrounds. I think a diplomatic brat inherits a very different world view than a soldier.

I think part of the reason for this widespread anti-US attitude is most people hate hypocrisy. My friends in West Africa helped me to understand this a bit, so I'll share what they did. For a lot of the developing world, the mythology of the US and the possibilities for emulation keep a lot of people with their eyes on the prize. Though it annoys me to have to admit it, Obama got this part right - our dreams of "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" is what a lot of people want.

However, when a state supreme court and the federal one anoint an impostor-in-chief, and right-wing dominionist wackos control the ballot boxes, (and meetings over energy policy between Enron officials and the VP are classified) it's nearly impossible to accept that the US is any less corrupt than any other corrupt country. For those "idealists" looking to the US for a hopeful model, it's gone by the wayside like our civil liberties and our collective credibility.

My own experience abroad has led me to conclude that open corruption is a lot easier to deal with than the shadow form. At least you know what you're supposed to do when you're being shaken down or investigated.

 

[fort]

We have (had???) a singer here (but can have left to live in Switzerland, one does not know more...), old star of the hexagonal rock'n'roll, often caricatured for its remarks and of which one of the leitmotiv, on scene, with most extremely of fright (transe)- if I can say - is (was) to question crowd, to make mount a little more the barometer: "Is there somebody who likes me here this evening ? "

It is the same principle.



In the return of nationalisms, or, to be righter, ostracism, in Europe for some time, the Americans have only one small share within the batch of exclusions, and, with all to take, I would not like to be Rom where that it is currently, in this part of the world. I exaggerate a little but it is not without reality.

 

[Bullethead]

I think this is a good example with which attitude you can make sure, that European will never like you.

No, this attitude is a result of witnessing Euro hatred for and resentment of the US all my life, including here on this forum.

So all my life I've tried to figure out why it is that Euros hate, or at least resent, us. After all, we're the good guys in the world, at least compared to the alternatives out there. I've asked many Euros about this, and it always goes the same way.

First, they deny that they hate the US. So then I ask them why they act as if they do, citing several specific incidents current at the time, including their own patronizing attitudes. And eventually, they always break down and say that yes, deep down they really hate the US. And it's always for the very reasons I stated. We've taken their place in the sun, and it makes them even more mad when we try to help them, because that just drives home their inferiority.

Well, I've learned to live with that. I can even understand it. What I can't understand, however, is how Euros let this inferiority-driven hatred cause them to act so far outside their own self-interest so often. They hate us so much that they'd rather go down in flames than appear to agree with us on anything, even if they know we're right.

"Rebuild the place" is a common myth.

If you say so. My history books say otherwise. Naturally, both our books would tend to paint things in the most favorable nationalistic light. Maybe the truth is somewhere in between. But just to be nice, I'll concede you this point, even though I'm sure I'm right.

OTOH, you still haven't countered any of my other points, and I doubt you will, because I'm sure that deep down you feel that way yourself. Every other Euro I've met does.

And even worse: This "we rebuild Europe" theory also breaks on the economic recovery of Japan: It grew nearly as fast as Europe, and that without even a cent of US aid.

Say what? What do you think the army of occupation was doing all those years?

(And as you claim to have served in the second gulf war, I suspect you have not been paying the Marshall plan out of your personal own pocket.)

What do you mean? Of course veterans have to pay taxes just like everybody else not rich enough to avoid them.

So, do you think that arrogance and ignorance to your own history is doing you a favor in getting sympathy outside the USA?

Fact of the matter is, we neither need nor want your love or your sympathy. We've never had either, we never expect to have them, and we haven't missed them yet.

OTOH, do you think your Euro arrogance endears you to us at all? Telling us how to run our country, how to vote in our elections, how to do this or that, as if Euro history offers anything worthy of emulation. IIRC, the not-too-distant ancestors of today's Americans came here precisely so they didn't have to listen to that from Euros any more. There are still people doing that today, even from Europe.

Go ahead and call my posts "nationalist vomit" all you want. But I'll be damned if I'm going to just sit here and let a bunch of foreigners badmouth my country non-stop, especially when they're so hypocritically self-righteous about it.

Anyway, it's been fun sparring with you today in these these threads. I give you the last word, because Gustav's about to knock me off the air for no telling how long.

Later days, everbody. I'll be back sometime next week, I hope. If not, well, them's the breaks.

Urwumpe, let me buy you a v-beer before I go. No hard feelings

 

[Eagle]

And even worse: This "we rebuild Europe" theory also breaks on the economic recovery of Japan: It grew nearly as fast as Europe, and that without even a cent of US aid.

Western reforms implemented by MacArthur are a big reason for Japan's economic success. Maybe not direct aid, but a different kind.

 

[n0mad23]

Ok,

I am going to have to agree with Bullethead here in that in-house critiques are the appropriate ones. Can't really fix the neighbors problems, but we have to fix our own.

Edit:

Come on, Greg! I know you're chompin' to leap in here, go for it!

 

[GregBurch]

I'm having so much fun not contributing to this thread ...

 

[Urwumpe]

Though it annoys me to have to admit it, Obama got this part right - our dreams of "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" is what a lot of people want.

Damn true. And we want that not only in the USA. :lol:

After all, THIS is really what makes us (western democrats) different to the Islamic wackos who preach martyrdom, conformity and obedience to patriarchal traditions - and this is also what many people in Afghanistan, Iran or Saudi-Arabia want. And if we are not even getting it, how discouraging does that have to be for them?

When they kick at your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun

When the law break in
How you gonna go?
Shot down on the pavement
Or waiting in death row



-----Posted Added-----

Say what? What do you think the army of occupation was doing all those years?

Implement the Morgenthau-Plan, which was favored strongly by Roosevelt? Manifested in the JCS 1067?

"During the first two years of the Allied occupation the Treasury program of industrial dismantlement was vigorously pursued by American officials."

That behavior, which was aiming at punishing Germany - including accepting starvation, was actually punishing the rest of Europe.

But maybe, you accept other experts, if you can't believe me.

http://www.econlib.org/library/enc/GermanEconomicMiracle.html

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]This account has not mentioned the Marshall Plan. Can't the German revival be attributed mainly to that? The answer is no. The reason is simple: Marshall Plan aid to Germany was not that large. Cumulative aid from the Marshall Plan and other aid programs totaled only $2 billion through October 1954. Even in 1948 and 1949, when aid was at its peak, Marshall Plan aid was less than 5 percent of German national income. Other countries that received substantial Marshall Plan aid had lower growth than Germany. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]Moreover, while Germany was receiving aid, it was also making reparations and restitution payments that were well over $1 billion. Finally, and most important, the Allies charged the Germans DM7.2 billion annually ($2.4 billion) for their costs of occupying Germany.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]


[/SIZE][/FONT]
So, who paid the show... (I did not even know we paid for the occupation of Germany, but well, that's what you get when you loose the war you started).

 

[SiberianTiger]

First, they deny that they hate the US. So then I ask them why they act as if they do, citing several specific incidents current at the time, including their own patronizing attitudes. And eventually, they always break down and say that yes, deep down they really hate the US. And it's always for the very reasons I stated. We've taken their place in the sun, and it makes them even more mad when we try to help them, because that just drives home their inferiority.

I'm certainly poking my nose it a business that's not mine, but watch the finger: first, people don't hate USA. After talking to you, they do. What might be wrong with them?

 

[Urwumpe]

I'm certainly poking my nose it a business that's not mine, but watch the finger: first, people don't hate USA. After talking to you, they do. What might be wrong with them?

Hey, he is a soldier, maybe he fears loosing his job when people stop hating the USA. :lol: