News Germanwings Flight 4U9525 (Airbus A320) crash in Southern France (24 March 2015)

[Urwumpe]

The co-pilot had been 28 years old and came from Montabaur, in the German state of Rhineland-Palatinate. He had been an avid glider pilot since his youth and had been member of the gliding club LSC Westerwald.

There had been a longer gap in his flight training six years ago, with unknown cause, but he passed all certifications without restrictions. His flying performance has been cited by Germanwings as flawless.

Germanwings also said that they can't explain why the pilot did not enter the key code for the door.

(Yes, Gary, that's an really - Maybe the BBC intended to fire the captain for using physical violence against an aircraft component. I have no idea why the mix the press conference with the AFP nonsense from earlier. Currently the actions of the senior pilot leave as many questions open as the reasons for the now known actions of the co-pilot)

Pilot candidates are initially psychologically screened, but later there is only the usual regular flightworthiness check of the pilots, which does only superficially touch psychological issues.

---------- Post added at 03:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------

And you will find some pilots at Lufthansa and other German airlines who will not believe the story for sure.

Yes. And to badly translate a German proverb: People have also already seen horses barf in front of the pharmacy store.

(For the English dudes: "You never know, anything can happen.")

Right now, the current state of the investigation says the unthinkable has happened. But as much as you and many pilots sure do, I hope it is not true, that later information will show that there is another explanation for the accident.


Interesting detail from the press event: Only fully-licensed pilots know the emergency code for the doors.

 

[garyw]

I refuse to believe that a German airline pilot flying for a Lufthansa associated company commits suicide by using an airliner loaded with 150 human beings. Simply because I know the standards for German airlines and their requirements. And you will find some pilots at Lufthansa and other German airlines who will not believe the story for sure.

the co-pilot was a low hours pilot and just out of flight school. Suicide is possible but there is another theory that basically he made a major screw up and was trying to fix it before the captain returned.

If it was suicide why the "gentle" descent which gave people 8 minutes to do something. Why not an egypt air style dive?

 

[Urwumpe]

If it was suicide why the "gentle" descent which gave people 8 minutes to do something. Why not an egypt air style dive?

Exactly. Also why give yourself so much time to think about it? Why stay in normal law and use the autopilot for it?

Something is really strange about it, and its not just the suicide. Why is the senior pilot knocking at the door and not simply entering the key code?

 

[garyw]

Exactly. Also why give yourself so much time to think about it? Why stay in normal law and use the autopilot for it?

Something is really strange about it, and its not just the suicide. Why is the senior pilot knocking at the door and not simply entering the key code?

This may sound bad but it's not meant to be but "autopilot assisted suicide". I know that crews rely a lot on the autopilot, but.........

Something is really strange about it, and its not just the suicide. Why is the senior pilot knocking at the door and not simply entering the key code?

I would hope that the CVR picks up sounds of the keyvode attempting to be entered. Of course, if the captain entered the wrong emergency code (easy to do in times of stress) then he is locked out for five minutes.

 

[Urwumpe]

Of course, if the captain entered the wrong emergency code (easy to do in times of stress) then he is locked out for five minutes.

Ouch - who designed this?

 

[C3PO]

I can't wait for some official word from the actual investigators.

Initially I thought that the reason for calling it "deliberate" was that the 1'st officer had (actively) locked the door, but it doesn't seem like the emergency code was entered. The reason given was that the emergency descent couldn't be initiated accidentally. With no FDR how can they be sure that emergency descent was indeed initiated? Is there an audible indication? Isn't it still possible that an incapacitated pilot has pushed the stick forward and Normal Law kept the plane inside the envelope during descent?

 

[Artlav]

If it was suicide why the "gentle" descent which gave people 8 minutes to do something. Why not an egypt air style dive?

Insurance scam?
I think there was a case when a cargo plane pilot tried to cover his family's debts by forcing a plane crash and making them get the life insurance payout.
He tried and failed to kill the other crew members in flight, so there was a relatively happy ending.

If you just dive the plane, it's obviously suicide, but if the plane descends in a fashion explainable by a pilot passing out in the middle of setting a descent, then it might be harder to identify.

Anyway, it's just one plausible theory among many. I hope they'll find the FDR.

 

[C3PO]

He tried and failed to kill the other crew members in flight, so there was a relatively happy ending.

"Relatively" being the operative word.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705"]Federal Express Flight 705 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Due to the extent and severity of their injuries, none of the crew has, so far, been recertified as medically fit to fly commercially.

 

[jarmonik]

The code doesn't open the door anyway. It's just for identification. In case a pilot just forgot the number he can call the other pilot via the interphone system.

You missed the point. If a pilot/pilots in a cockpit are unconscious then the code is the only way in. If no-one from then cabin crew knows the code (for some reason) there's no way helping the pilots. Single button should be enough to open the door unless it's actively rejected from inside the cockpit.

Maybe there should be some kind of door locking system that can override emergency access codes only if both pilots are in the cockpit and alive. Like a dual switch.

 

[Urwumpe]

Isn't it still possible that an incapacitated pilot has pushed the stick forward and Normal Law kept the plane inside the envelope during descent?

Normal law would allow actually a much steeper descent then.

15° pitch down would, even with 0° AOA mean at 380 KTAS a vertical velocity of 10.000 feet per minute

---------- Post added at 04:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:59 PM ----------

In about 15 minutes will be a press conference by chancellor Angela Merkel about the accident.

 

[garyw]

Whilst this story develops, I just want to post this here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ined-PASSENGERS-going-berserk-mid-flight.html

There are times when locking the captain out is the RIGHT thing to do.

 

[Urwumpe]

Whilst this story develops, I just want to post this here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ined-PASSENGERS-going-berserk-mid-flight.html

There are times when locking the captain out is the RIGHT thing to do.

Norwegian Air now has ruled that at any time, two crew members have to be in the cockpit. So, when the captain wants to go to the bath room, a flight attendant has to take his seat (or at least sit in the cockpit - not specific right now)

Also, the co-pilot had worked as flight attendant while he was waiting to resume pilot training, he was examined completely (including psychological checks) twice because of the longer pause in his training.

 

[Urwumpe]

BTW... I would prefer to follow the German standards about posting names of the crew (Not at all or if necessary for identification, the first name + first letter of the surname, which is "Andreas L."). I have just seen that the British media again shows itself from its best side and had some trouble to keep my Christmas dinner inside.

Please remember that the family of the co-pilot is as much victim of the crash as any other family of the passengers.

 

[DeskOrbinaut]

The entire "event" just is a nightmare in the German and European aviation history. I'm shocked but I'm still not convinced. Just two days left, no analyzed DFDR data, but they already assume pilot-suicide only based on CVR recording. Something is wrong here in my humble point of view. Especially considering the times we are living in...

As for the family of the co-pilot: I personally still follow presumption of innocence. Authorities are not without fail. And I'm not willing to believe and except after some 48 hours that an aviation enthusiast who made his dream become true just "flies berserk" with a fully loaded airliner as a kneejerk reaction.

 

[C3PO]

BTW... I would prefer to follow the German standards about posting names of the crew (Not at all or if necessary for identification, the first name + first letter of the surname, which is "Andreas L."). I have just seen that the British media again shows itself from its best side and had some trouble to keep my Christmas dinner inside.

Please remember that the family of the co-pilot is as much victim of the crash as any other family of the passengers.

BBC just showed footage of the journalists who are camping outside his parent's house. I'm sorry but that is just wrong!!! I wouldn't blame anyone who pulled a Clarkson/Aldrin on them.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Lamestream media strikes again!

I guess that there's no other major crises for them to focus on right now... :dry:

 

[DeskOrbinaut]

The investigation just has the first pieces of a puzzle and yes, these pieces more or less strongly suggest pilot suicide. But these pieces are not free of contradictions and more evidence will come.

I will only believe the final report, when there is clear evidence, data and no contradictions. Should this story become true, it will leave a very deep gap in German aviation history. The loss of trust amongst people and passengers will be immense I guess.

I don't really want to be a member of the executive board of Germanwings right now. Not to mention the bereaved.

 

[Urwumpe]

I will only believe the final report, when there is clear evidence, data and no contradictions.

Is better that way - but don't expect too much. Final reports without contradictions and unexplainable things are rare. The closer you look, the easier it is too see, that often, the report is just the best approximation to the truth possible with existing technology.

 

[mojoey]

Lamestream media strikes again!

I guess that there's no other major crises for them to focus on right now... :dry:

Lamestream

Lamestream

Lamestream

Do you want to trigger me? Because that's how you trigger me.

Seriously though, the mission of the media is to report on current events, and that's exactly what they're doing...albeit they're walking all over the days of good newscasting by blending the editorialization of the news, and reporting the straight facts.

All those in favor of cloning Cronkite, say Aye.

 

[Urwumpe]

All those in favor of cloning Cronkite, say Aye.

Aye.

Also, would this happen in my village, I would go explicitly medieval on them paparazzi.

It is already bad enough, that such creep offered money to children of the school in Haltern for interviews.