Multi stage rockets

MJR

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I would like to make a multi stage rocket addon for Orbiter. I asked about this to someone ele and they told me to study a design and it will most likely help the ship's physical parameters. What else materials other than Anim8or to make this project come to life.
 

Urwumpe

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In my case, the most important tools other than Anim8or are:
- Paper : Creative drawings, brain storming, general mathematics
- Excel or OpenOffice Calc : For quickly experimenting with small configuration changes.
- Basic spaceflight lecture notes : Contains the basic formulas related to optimizing a multistage rocket. You can also find some of them in the WWW, others can be derived from the basic formulas.
- Maple : Need to log on the university for using that. Helps me solving equations, but you can do without, it just takes more time.
- Eclipse : Once I have a good basic configuration, I use Eclipse and the Java programming language for further optimizing the mass budgets. While any programming language can be used for that task, I like Eclipse+Java because of the easier editing.

But you can also use a less methodical approach and just experiment with numbers.

The methodical approach of designing and evaluating a multistage rocket is hard to explain quickly, there are many theoretical concepts which need to be explained first.
Like payload mass fraction, the definition of a stage, and construction mass.
 

TSPenguin

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You could get general ideas and hints from other multistage.dll rockets (assuming you want to use multistage.dll).
But I bet you already thought of it. (If anyone wonders why I post it anyway, I make a habbit of loosing bets)
 

MajorTom

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Hello MJR,

One way to quickly get your feet wet with multistage rockets, is to simply start filling in values in the ini file you'll have to make if you use Multistage2.dll by Vinka. Be sure to read the documentation for it, it will tell you what each of the values must be.

One way to gain familiarity with this process, and hopefully develop some intuition about real rockets, is to look up values for existing rocket designs, which sure enough, tend to work in Orbiter almost as they do in real life, provided you have good, correct data. CAUTION: Simply feeding in numbers from one source is usually not sufficient. I find that the article writers for places like Wikipedia and other such online sources don't always "check" their work, and you sometimes see numbers that simply don't add up.

One way to check the numbers on your own is to use the following key relationship between the important variables for any rocket stage:
Isp = (F * Delta T) / (g * Delta M)
Where
Isp is specific impulse (given in seconds). This is a measure of how good or efficient the engine and fuel combination are.

g is acceleration of gravity (let's use 9.86 m/s/s )

Delta T is the burn time, which is how long the stage takes to burn its fuel mass with engines at max. thrust.

Delta M is the amount of mass that gets used during Delta T. In other words, the fuel mass.
Finally, an example. Let's start with the config information needed by Multistage2.dll, for stage 1 of the as yet unflown Falcon 9 rocket by SpaceX (http://www.spacex.com/falcon9.php)

[Stage_1]
MESHNAME="directory\meshname" (fill these in with whatever you named your mesh for stage 1)
OFF=(0,0,15) (You'll probably want Z to equal the center of your stage mesh. For instance, for a 30 meter-long stage 1, Z will be about 15)
HEIGHT=30
DIAMETER=3.6
THRUST=4400000 (This can be quite tricky, as this isn't modeled quite right in multistage2. Mass flow is almost constant, but Isp and thrust are not, because the rocket rises from sea level to a near vacuum. More about this later)
EMPTYMASS=20000 (This is a guess. I assume [guess] the stage 1 mass to be 200,000 kg, and further assume 10% is "empty mass," which consists of the fuel tanks, engines and anything else that is not fuel. Usually, about 90% of a stage is fuel.)
FUELMASS=180000 (see above)
BURNTIME=116 (This was derived using guessed-at average thrust and Isp values...averaging between sea level and vacuum values...and the other data above, using that equation, above. This might be close to the real value, but don't know yet.)
SPEED=(0,0,-2) (Optional value...speed that stage 1 separates from stage 2)
ROT_SPEED=(0.05,0.0) (Again, optional--you can omit this if you want. 1.0 is one radian, or about 57 degrees rotation, per second, along the given axis.)
ENG_1=(1,1,-15)
...
ENG_9=(-1,-1,-15) (These are the x,y,z coordinates, relative to the center point of your stage 1 mesh, for the "flame" animations to be placed. Do this well and it will look like 9 Merlin engines are burning correctly.)
ENG_DIAMETER=0.5 (Diameter of the exhaust texture)
ENG_TEX=Exhaust2 (Engine exhaust texture)
ENG_PSTREAM1=something (Particle stream. Never mind for now)

Cheers-
MT
 

MajorTom

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More info on using multistage2:

For sake of creating a clean example, below, I'm pretending we're looking at a "dragon" spacecraft, brought to life by spacecraft3.dll, and your multistage rocket is named Falcon9.

Several of the files below from Vinka are automatically installed in their required locations, so you don't have to. At bare minimum, you'll need the following files in the following Orbiter subdirectories before you can even test-fly your multistager. :

Config
- stage.cfg
multistage
- multistage2.cfg
Spacecraft
- spacecraft3.cfg
- dragon.ini [This is your spacecraft ini file.]
Falcon9
- Falcon9.cfg [Little file you have to have. Quick and easy to set up]
- Falcon9.ini [File with all the stage and booster data, see above. Read Vinka's documentation. But the easiest way to learn how to make ini files is to study the ini files of others. There are many multistage2 launchers available at the hangar]
- Falcon9_GNC.txt [Once your rocket is flying, it is nice, though optional, to make a guidance file for it. Separate topic. ]

Meshes
Dragon
- dragon.msn [your spacecraft payload mesh]
Falcon9
- Falcon9-s1.msh [This would be stage 1 mesh]
- Falcon9-s2.msh [Stage 2]
- Falcon9_Fairing_1.msh [Fairing half number 1. I'm assuming there are two pieces total]
- Falcon9_Fairing_2.msh [Fairing half number 2. Note you need both, and the names must end in _1 and _2 or multistage will crash orbiter.]

Modules
- multistage2.dll
- spacecraft3.dll
- stage.dll

Scenarios
Falcon 9 Test Flight
- Falcon9-Dragon.scn

Textures [While not required, textures make meshes look far better and provide a better user experience. Show off your art skills.]
- Falcon9-tex1.dds...


MT
 

MJR

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How do I set up the whole entire craft in anim8or?
 

Urwumpe

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How do I set up the whole entire craft in anim8or?

You make each stage as separate Object and later integrate all objects in scene mode. In scene mode, you also have better rendering options.

If you have a email account, which allows large attachments, I can email you the anim8or file for a Soyuz launcher.
 

MajorTom

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MJR,

Any progress on the multistage rocket? In some spare time this evening I was going to build a whole ini file for Falcon9. I'll post it here if interested.

MT
 

Cosmos

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"More info on using multistage2:

For sake of creating a clean example, below, I'm pretending we're looking at a "dragon" spacecraft, brought to life by spacecraft3.dll, and your multistage rocket is named Falcon9."


Tom are you working on that? I quickly did a OH search as I didn't remember one, but only found the Falcon 1.
I really hope SpaceX's next launch is sucessful.
 

MajorTom

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Right, Cosmos,

Falcon 9 is a bit more challenging because its specs aren't fully revealed on the SpaceX website. (Maybe it's because it's still in the design phase? :lol:)

But challenging in a fun sort of way. I've never attempted to "design" a new booster with so many unknowns. There are just a few I can probably rely on:

1. Overall approximate mass of the system
2. Configuration: Stage 1 with 9 Merlin engines, long interstage, stage 2 with just one Merlin, but this time with a great big wide nozzle to improve vacuum thrust performance. Then a big heavy Dragon payload on top.
3. Some performance data for the Merlin engines
4. The rest has to be guessed / derived / refined through experimentation. Or corrected later when the real data comes out.;)

Do you have any interest in learning how to do any of this? Since I've been playing around with multistage2 and spacecraft3 from Vinka, it's opened up a whole new world of enjoyment for me. I think these tools are a great way to get a new developer-aspirant started.

MT

MT
 

Cosmos

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"Do you have any interest in learning how to do any of this? Since I've been playing around with multistage2 and spacecraft3 from Vinka, it's opened up a whole new world of enjoyment for me. I think these tools are a great way to get a new developer-aspirant started."


I wish I could help you, I'm still learning how to make a decent mesh. If I could ever get that down, I next want to learn how to texture it. I just wish there were more hours in a day...and less need to sleep.
 

EtherDragon

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"Do you have any interest in learning how to do any of this? Since I've been playing around with multistage2 and spacecraft3 from Vinka, it's opened up a whole new world of enjoyment for me. I think these tools are a great way to get a new developer-aspirant started."


I wish I could help you, I'm still learning how to make a decent mesh. If I could ever get that down, I next want to learn how to texture it. I just wish there were more hours in a day...and less need to sleep.

If you want to be able to make great meshes, and texture them pretty quickly, I would suggest investing a smidge of cash and getting AC3D. It's a very affordable, full featured 3D modeler. There is a plug-in available to enable exporting your model to an orbiter meshfile.

www.inivis.com

Check out the free demo.
 

Cosmos

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"If you want to be able to make great meshes, and texture them pretty quickly, I would suggest investing a smidge of cash and getting AC3D. It's a very affordable, full featured 3D modeler. There is a plug-in available to enable exporting your model to an orbiter meshfile."


Thanks for the advise. I'm enjoying learning in Blender, but the problem isn't the 3D program. Unfortunately I am currently terrible at making anything that is acceptable to myself. I'm hoping with practice I'll get better.:)
 

MajorTom

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If you want to be able to make great meshes, and texture them pretty quickly, I would suggest investing a smidge of cash and getting AC3D. It's a very affordable, full featured 3D modeler. There is a plug-in available to enable exporting your model to an orbiter meshfile.

www.inivis.com

Check out the free demo.

Seconded...I like AC3D very much. Once I switched to it, haven't looked anywhere else. Saves tons of time...your time is all spent getting your new designs looking good.

MT
 

MajorTom

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Sample (dev) ini file for Falcon 9. Note, this doesn't quite achieve orbit, but I've got a few things I have to work on for sure. This is "version 1"


[MISC]
COG=3
;TELEMETRY=1
FOCUS=1
;GNC_DEBUG=1

[TEXTURE_LIST]
TEX_1=Exhaust2

[PARTICLESTREAM_1]
NAME=stages
SRCSIZE=0.6
SRCRATE=5000
V0=100
SRCSPREAD=0
LIFETIME=0.8
GROWTHRATE=12
ATMSLOWDOWN=0
LTYPE=EMISSIVE
LEVELMAP=LVL_PSQRT
LMIN=0
LMAX=1
ATMSMAP=ATM_PLOG
AMIN=1e-4
AMAX=1
TEX=Contrail2

[Stage_1]
MESHNAME="falcon9\falcon9-s1"
OFF=(0,0,15)
HEIGHT=30
DIAMETER=3.6
THRUST=4484300
EMPTYMASS=14902
FUELMASS=233472
BURNTIME=140
SPEED=(0,0,-2)
ROT_SPEED=(0.05,0.0)
ENG_1=(1.1,1.1,-15.5)
ENG_2=(1.1,0,-15.5)
ENG_3=(1.1,-1.1,-15.5)
ENG_4=(0,1.1,-15.5)
ENG_5=(0,0,-15.5)
ENG_6=(0,-1.1,-15.5)
ENG_7=(-1.1,1.1,-15.5)
ENG_8=(-1.1,0,-15.5)
ENG_9=(-1.1,-1.1,-15.5)
ENG_DIAMETER=0.5
ENG_TEX=Exhaust2
ENG_PSTREAM1=stages

[Separation_12]
MESHNAME="falcon9\falcon9-IS"
OFF=(0,0,33)
HEIGHT=6
DIAMETER=3.6
EMPTYMASS=800
ROT_SPEED=(0.05,0.0)

[Stage_2]
MESHNAME="falcon9\falcon9-s2"
OFF=(0,0,37)
HEIGHT=8
DIAMETER=3.6
THRUST=513324
EMPTYMASS=3938
FUELMASS=61688
BURNTIME=345
SPEED=(0,0,-1)
ROT_SPEED=(0.05,0.0)
ENG_1=(0,0,-5)
ENG_DIAMETER=1.1
ENG_TEX=Exhaust2
ENG_PSTREAM1=stages

[PAYLOAD_1]
MESHNAME="Falcon9\Dragon"
OFF=(0,0,41.75)
HEIGHT=7
DIAMETER=3.7
MASS=7000
MODULE=spacecraft\spacecraft3
NAME=Dragon
SPEED=(0,0,0.5)
RENDER=1
 
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MajorTom

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OK team,

I've not heard back from any of you regarding the development effort for Falcon 9 / Dragon, but that's not stopped me!

I'll upload a beta to the Hangar fairly soon. Go ahead and play with that, tweak the parameters, have fun. It's not textured or anything.

My ini file is finally "good enough" to get the Dragon (with mass arbitrarily set at 8500 kg) into orbit.

MT
 

MJR

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I totally forgot about this. How should the bottom part of the launcher look like? I am interested in making Falcon 9. I have been working on oher things. Could I make the stage one craft by just making a simple cylinder?
 

MajorTom

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Sure, why not?

Neither Multistage2 nor Orbiter care what your rocket's meshes look like. You could just use cylinders that approximate the stage sizes (length and diameter) like I do, to help get started quickly.

When I upload my dev work for Falcon 9 / Dragon, I'll include 3ds versions that you can import into Anim8or. Look for them in the 3DS folder I include with the zipped-up directories.

MT
 

MJR

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I made the bottom part. What is the next step? I just find it so complex making a multi stage rocket.
 

MajorTom

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Well, make stage 2.

There is an interstage section...nothing but a hollow tube...between stage 1 and 2, and it's probably attached to stage 1, so I would make a dark, hollow tube the same diameter as stage 1 and 2, 6 m long, and make it part of your stage 1.

Then make a stage 2, then the Dragon payload.

There are many steps involved...doesn't really matter what you do next!

MT
 
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