OS WARS MEGA THREAD (Now debating proprietary vs. open-source!)

Screamer7

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For potential Windows 8 customers my advice would be....don't bother.
I do not like the Metro interface. 99% of my time in Windows 8, I am in the desktop mode.
And which is the same as Windows 7, minus the start button.
I do not have a touch screen, and do not intended to buy one.
So IMO Windows 8 is not worth it.
The money spent for this OS can be better spend on some other software or hardware.
About that hidden shutdown button Galactic Penguin SST, your sister is more clever than me.
I had to google it!!!!!:blush:
 
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DarkFact

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O-F Staff Note: three posts moved here from the Xbox Indie Port of Orbiter thread. Feel free to continue the OS Wars discussion here.


Its kinda funny how people will be for defunct OS like linux or opengl render engines yet assume there is more than 4 people on earth using either systems. Simulators on xbox are picking up and there is a large demand as the console has accomodated more age groups and demographics. With that in consideration is would be more wasteful developing for linux or opengl rather than a console that is only now hitting 50% it's life. As per microsoft satement as to the xbox life expectancy. Plus its pretty much a pc at heart and more c/c++ friendly.

This could really open new users to orbiter and bring a more consistant hardware platform in which to see the engine run. Why is that such a bad thing? Why is it that people assume the pc, using the same hardware, really doesn't look much better but cost 4 times as much.

I'm not knocking your opinion but it does appear that your opinion may have misinformation that drives it. Trust me I've done my homework and a few rough tests before going before the court. I know that this will not only work but be very well received due to the majority of games being fps. The gamers are seeking new fun hence popularity of racing sims and even minecraft. They starving for something new and different but hey what do I know I've only been playing games since 1978 or wrote my first program at 8 in assembly. But what do I know lol
 
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Zatnikitelman

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Linux and OpenGL are hardly defunct, nor are they on their way out. The key difference between developing for Linux/OpenGL and Xbox is that the former are not at 50% of their life expectancy...they don't even have a life expectancy the way the console does.
While I don't see a problem if someone wants to develop a realistic space-physics simulator for the Xbox platform, it will be hard to get a lot of people on this forum excited about it. How would you handle mods? How would the "consumer" even develop mods? Would you even have mods? Until you can fairly comprehensively answer those questions, you probably won't pull a lot of us over to your side. I'd be happy to be surprised, but having observed this community for the past several years, it's hard not to get a good feeling for the expected reactions.

What isn't helping you garner much support either is your relative newness here. If this idea had come from a long-time member, then maybe it would gain some more traction, particularly if they provided more details to the framework (and didn't call it an Orbiter "port" either). I'm not saying being new is a bad thing, we've had some very good addons and ideas come from new people. But more often than not, we get someone who we don't know, with big lofty ideas that gets the community stirred up, then they just quietly fade into the background.
 
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Pablo49

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Well linux and opengl are still around for the people that refuse to give up on 90s os's
Xbox is still around because console companies have yet to give up this generation.
 

Keatah

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Well linux and opengl are still around for the people that refuse to give up on 90s os's

Ohh please gimme a break. They just updated openGL to 4.3 this past summer. This is a very relevant API, especially when working with scientific visualizations, gaming, and simulations. The world's premier flight simulator, X-Plane, uses openGL. My favorite astronomy program, Stellarium, uses it. I get all sorts of special NTSC/CRT artifacting effects when I play Atari 2600 games, thanks to openGL.

All recent (and most ancient) GPU's support it, this includes Nvidia, AMD/ATI, and intel integrated graphics. And it is the intel integrated graphics (built into Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge chips) which bring openGL to the masses.

Linux, stuck in the 90's? I don't think so. My lady runs an entire business using 100% freeware software. Complete graphic editing and accounting suites operating through Linux. Not to mention the backup solution and other necessities. And as time goes on I believe that Linux will become more important.

With all due respect to my fellow forum poster - you do not know what you are saying when you claim Linux and openGL are 1990's stuff. Both are very much modernized.

---------- Post added at 02:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 AM ----------

How would you handle mods? How would the "consumer" even develop mods? Would you even have mods? Until you can fairly comprehensively answer those questions, you probably won't pull a lot of us over to your side.

What isn't helping you garner much support either is your relative newness here. If this idea had come from a long-time member, then maybe it would gain some more traction, particularly if they provided more details to the framework (and didn't call it an Orbiter "port" either). I'm not saying being new is a bad thing, we've had some very good addons and ideas come from new people. But more often than not, we get someone who we don't know, with big lofty ideas that gets the community stirred up, then they just quietly fade into the background.

Mods and add-ons are the other 50% of Orbiter. Take away Orbitersound, the XR series, the Space: 1999 stuff, the MFD's, the scenarios, the space-A-stations, planetary textures. Dammnnn.. I couldn't imagine playing Orbiter without these things.

If anyone is planning on doing a remake of Orbiter for a console, that person is going to need to reverse-engineer the code, or obtain the sources from the Good Doctor. And it will be important to maintain add-on compatibility.

As I've said in another thread, if you want an Orbiter console - get a small set-top-box. Gussie it up with a good CPU and GPU, black it out, make it look pretty, strip out all unnecessary software and install Orbiter on it. Now you've got a dedicated box that runs Orbiter, it sits in the living room like a XBOX (but not an XBOX). It's compatible with add-ons, it accepts future versions of Orbiter. And you get 100% excellent technical support.

All the hard work in writing the software has already been done, why dupe the effort? To me it's like putting triangular wheels on a car, then rounding the points and modding the suspension; in attempt to get a Cadillac ride.
 

Face

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Well linux and opengl are still around for the people that refuse to give up on 90s os's

This is a very narrow view of the situation. People are not "refusing to give up on 90s os's". They simply have no better alternative for a FOSS OS that is also stable and widely supported.

Sometimes you even have to use Linux in a job, e.g. if you are working for a company that uses it for µCs.

It is similar for openGL. The lack of a free alternative is what keeps people stick to it.

Of course you are welcome to come up with a solution for this by means of creating your own "modern" OS with a "modern" GFX interface, and gathering a following for it that is willing to support it with drivers, hardware and whatnot. If it is done, please inform us, so we can switch to it.

regards,
Face
 

Linguofreak

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Ohh please gimme a break. They just updated openGL to 4.3 this past summer. This is a very relevant API, especially when working with scientific visualizations, gaming, and simulations. The world's premier flight simulator, X-Plane, uses openGL. My favorite astronomy program, Stellarium, uses it. I get all sorts of special NTSC/CRT artifacting effects when I play Atari 2600 games, thanks to openGL.

All recent (and most ancient) GPU's support it, this includes Nvidia, AMD/ATI, and intel integrated graphics. And it is the intel integrated graphics (built into Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge chips) which bring openGL to the masses.

Not to mention that, unlike DirectX, software written to it is portable.

Linux, stuck in the 90's? I don't think so.

There's really only one word you needed to say here:

Android.
 

Screamer7

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Windows 8...worth it?

When I bought my new PC, I was "forced" to buy Windows 8.
Just because it was way cheaper than Windows 7.

The time, I think, has arrived to evaluate Windows 8.
I want to create a poll and see how many Orbiter users had upgrade to Windows 8,want to upgrade, or steer clear and use Windows XP or Windows 7.

Can some one help me to create a poll?

My personal experience with Windows 8 is a mix bag.
Orbiter run very well on Windows 8. (Most importantly):)
I don't like the Metro interface. It is ugly.
I do not like the big icon's, 2D interface and colors.
I almost immediately dashed to the desktop and stay there.
The charms is of no use for me.
Although inconvenient, I can live without the start button.

Windows 8 is useable and very stable, but in my opinion Microsoft can do better.
 

Arrowstar

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There are methods of returning Windows 8 to a Win7 look and feel. A simple Google search will yield innumerable results. :)
 

orb

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About the start button and menu, there are links to programs adding or changing them on the previous page of this thread (at least if you use 40 posts per page :p).


If you don't like the default shell (user interface), you can replace it with another one in the registry:
  • System-wide:
    "HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon\Shell"
  • Per-user:
    "HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon\Shell"
 

Screamer7

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Thanks for the info.
Especially the reg. codes Orb.
That is something I didn't know of.
I already have the start menu back using Startmenu 8.
What I want to know is the general feeling of:
1. The reaction of Windows 8 users about the OS.
2. Who want to Install the OS on their PC. (Windows 7 and XP users.)
3. How many users have switch to Windows 8.
 

Bonanza123d

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Is Windows 8 the same on destop and Surface

Basically the topic title. Are they the same. I want to see if I can get one for college since I am going into Software Engineering.
 

Cosmic Penguin

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Be sure to choose the correct version of Surface - there's a Windows 8 version (I think it's the more expensive one, but be sure to double check) and a Windows RT version (Microsoft's new OS linage in response to iOS and Android) that is currently very limited in terms of services.
 

Bonanza123d

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Be sure to choose the correct version of Surface - there's a Windows 8 version (I think it's the more expensive one, but be sure to double check) and a Windows RT version (Microsoft's new OS linage in response to iOS and Android) that is currently very limited in terms of services.

So will the Pro version be like a laptop?

Can i also get Windows RT on a dual boot?
 

Hielor

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Surface RT (or any Windows RT device) is basically like an iPad. It's a limited environment. You can browse the web and run apps that you've purchased/downloaded from the Windows 8 store. You can edit documents and spreadsheets using the pared-down version of Office that's included, but you don't get the full functionality of a "normal" install. The flip side is that you'll have good battery life in a lightweight package.

With that in mind, your question of "Can I also get Windows RT on a dual boot?" makes no sense at all.

The Surface Pro (and any other non-RT Windows 8 device) is basically a lightweight laptop. You can download and run programs off the internet in addition to the stuff in the Windows 8 Store.

I wouldn't recommend either as your only computing device for getting a software engineering degree in college. You want either a desktop or a good solid productivity laptop with a decently sized screen and a good keyboard.
 

Screamer7

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Another difference between the two is that the Windows RT use an ARM processor and the Windows 8 Pro version use an Intel or AMD(?) processor.
And the Windows 8 Pro model allows the installation of traditional third-party desktop programs, as Hielor mentioned above.
 
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Urwumpe

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the Windows 8 Pro version use an Intel or AMD(?) processor.

Intel i5.

Which is usually good enough for software development, but without a good keyboard, you can't use it well for it. The "Surface Type" keyboard is similar to a notebook keyboard in feeling. That is good enough for some smaller fixes, but if you work a day on such a keyboard, you will really feel the pain.
 
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