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Thunder Chicken

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Better make another simulation engine for that. You can't simulate it all equally good with one engine. And tell me when it is ready, ;)
Actually quite a lot of the physics in Orbiter would be fine. The trick would be that a separate layer of "atmosphere" would be needed to model the seas as a dense liquid, and add-on developers would need to modify their coefficients for the different Reynolds number regimes. Buoyant forces can be calculated easily. I made a dirigible add-on many many years ago that worked but I don't have it anymore.
 

Thunder Chicken

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Sounds BAD.

Why didn't they paint at least parts of it orange?
Who knows? Maybe they don't sell orange spray paint at the Best Buy where they bought the Logitech controllers. A yellow submarine could have a certain PR appeal too. A roll of reflective tape on all topside edges and corners would help too. In addition to that, I don't see why they couldn't make something like a simple retroreflector out of light sheet metal to make them an easier radar target for surface vessels.

When your safety culture can't even be asked to splash out a few hundred bucks for rudimentary things to expedite a recovery, you have a problem. The CEO really thought he was making a sea elevator and there was no possibility of getting lost. Things that work well on paper tend to get beaten to death when they go into the sea.
 

Urwumpe

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Actually quite a lot of the physics in Orbiter would be fine. The trick would be that a separate layer of "atmosphere" would be needed to model the seas as a dense liquid, and add-on developers would need to modify their coefficients for the different Reynolds number regimes. Buoyant forces can be calculated easily. I made a dirigible add-on many many years ago that worked but I don't have it anymore.

Yes, but its also about visualization, numeric stability, boundary problems....

Its easier to stay in the comfort zone.

I wanted to make a Zeppelin add-on a while ago, but now it has to wait. But likely with too much focus on crew management and weather. Also I need better meshes for that.
 

Urwumpe

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BTW, I decided to give SubROV a try, it fits to the theme of today and is safe-for-my-children.
 

Thunder Chicken

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Yes, but its also about visualization, numeric stability, boundary problems....
Isn't it always?

Speaking of balloons, I am wondering if something like a small but rugged buoyant Mylar balloon could be tied to the sub to aid in visibility. It would be more easily visible above the surface, would be radar reflective, and would collapse and reinflate automatically due to water pressure. It would initially hinder submersion, but 10 m down it would be half the volume, and at the bottom it would be about 0.2% of the surface volume.
 

Fabri91

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After starting to commute to work with my bike a bit more methodically / consistently, it turns out, I had to change the main gear cassette after 2000 km or so:
  1. Started having issues in second gear, where it would work but there'd be very noticeable "grinding" in the drivetrain
  2. Since it's inexpensive and easy I decided to change my chain
  3. The grinding issue went away, but the chain started skipping teeth on the cogs of gears 6 to 9, which are by far the most used: the old stretched chain had basically deformed these cogs to its new tolerance
  4. Decided to change cassette, i.e. the group of cogs on the rear wheel, which solved the issue for good and was surprisingly inexpensive (40 € for the gear set, plus the same amount on a one-off purchase of required tools).
After the fact I measured the stretch of the original worn-out chain with a stretch gauge and it was definitely shot:
1687411532669.png
1687411505850.png
 

Urwumpe

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I'd say, we have 5 more souls lost at sea by now. Even if they would have oxygen left, they have still not been found, the sounds can not be identified as human origin and all rescue ships are not yet on site. The time is running out for them.
 

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I'd say, we have 5 more souls lost at sea by now. Even if they would have oxygen left, they have still not been found, the sounds can not be identified as human origin and all rescue ships are not yet on site. The time is running out for them.
Yeah 😫 Also, in case they are on the ocean floor, it is freezing cold. Drinking water is probably also delpeted I think. And what about a toilet? I don't really want to imagine the circumstances... just horrible

Edit:

I'm also curious regarding their life support system. If they had a loss of power, how is CO2 removed from the cabin? 5 persons in that very small "pipe"... they might already be dead for days.
 
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Urwumpe

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I'm also curious regarding their life support system. If they had a loss of power, how is CO2 removed from the cabin? 5 persons in that very small "pipe"... they might already be dead for days.

Well it could be just like the Soyuz life support system, especially for the reentry capsule: If no power or pump failure, use a hand pump.
 

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I think this is a dubious story there is such a Thermocline effect

Even if P3 dropped Sonobuoy
Might just mean they're higher up (partial failure of ballast) or they're even on the surface, floating around undetected. Surfacing is quite useless as long as they can't make radio contact or otherwise signal where they are
 

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I think this is a dubious story there is such a Thermocline effect

Even if P3 dropped Sonobuoy

A thermocline is not unpenetrable by sound and of course at higher latitudes, you can drop sonobouys that reach below the thermocline. still you can only coarsely locate the sound source, unless you are close
 

Thunder Chicken

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They are either on the bottom or on the surface. There is really no way they could trim the vessel for neutral buoyancy.

As far as the noises are concerned, bear in mind that they are in the vicinity of 52,000 tons of rusting and slowly-collapsing Titanic wreckage which is swept with pretty strong currents. It creaks and rattles and bangs regularly. If the bangs were rhythmic they'd be easier to identify as coming from the Titan, but I'd think there would be more excitement if that were the case. Similarly, they are in the vicinity of the Titanic debris field, so active sonar won't help if they are on the bottom in that mess. Even imaging sonar may not be able to resolve anything in that field due to the debris. They are going to have to visually go over the entire area of the wreck to see if the Titan is anywhere in it.

If they were intact and stuck on the bottom, fouled on wreckage or something, I would think that they'd be tapping away on the hull trying to get noticed. For that matter, that would also help if they were at the surface too, but they may not have realized that. There is no evidence that they imploded as that would be an obvious and loud event. In my mind, they either had a major leak and sank, or they lost power and de-ballasted, and are floating around on the surface somewhere.

If they made it to the surface, they may not have thought to make noise by tapping, figuring that they were at the surface not far from the support vessel and that they would be seen eventually. Maybe they popped up within line of sight of the support vessel, but unless they had very attentive and lucky deck watches looking for a mostly submerged small white sub, it's very possible they just drifted away with the current. It seems that no one was particularly worried by the loss of contact until after their scheduled return time, which means they could have traveled with the currents for nearly 8 hours before anyone thought to look for them. They could have been many miles away by then. At that point, they only had a few hours of daylight for a visual search, and airborne searches probably didn't start in earnest until the next morning. They could have drifted quite far by that point.

They either will be found on the bottom eventually, or they may wash up on some distant shore in months or years, or they simply may never be found. In any instance I'm sorry to say that I think finding them alive is no longer possible.
 

Thunder Chicken

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Also consider that the Titan is 6.7 m long, which is the same length as a totally enclosed life boat (TELB) commonly used on modern vessels. Unfortunately, unlike the TELB, it is not riding high above the water and isn't international orange. The Titan would just fit inside my living room (and I don't live in a mansion, far from it). Finding TELBs during searches is still very challenging, and they rely heavily on having lights and beacons to help guide searchers to their vicinity. I don't know that the Titan had any sort of exterior lighting that would still work with loss of main power. I don't believe it had running lights of any sort.
 

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A thermocline is not unpenetrable by sound
Emergency hydroacoustic signaling device tor MGS-30 submarine Kursk it was he who pounded the signal sos "on the hull" his weight 670 kg

a1ff59c9fcd256be3695bb06465e1011.jpg
 

Thunder Chicken

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Urwumpe

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Sounds bad. But if there was a implosion, why didn't our sensors hear it? Too small for the distance?
 
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