Request Turn-Yourself-Into-A-Guided-Missile MFD

[quantum1423]

So, everybody knows there is an AAMissile addon, but it has limited range and really isn't that configurable. These days I've been experimenting with the Minuteman II ICBM addon and trying to find ways to implement an interceptor for the ICBM in its target zone.

So far, what I did was I built a spaceport (using Alysimia meshes) in the target zone and put a HARP cannon exactly where the warhead would land. Then, I loaded a ShuttlePB into the HARP cannon (yeah I know it is ridiculous!) and when the warhead (monitored with Map MFD) reached 100 km height, I launched the PB shuttle at 2 km/s directly in the direction of the incoming warhead. Then, I'd open AAMissile MFD (I configured the PB to use a missile) and fire an AIM-120 at the ICBM warhead at the last moment (using 0.1x time accel all the way of course) at around 10 km altitude. Most of the time it works...

Using air-to-air missiles to intercept ICBMs sounds and is very stupid, especially when it involves shooting ShuttlePBs out of cannons. I request an MFD that actually turns the focused ship (or preferable a selected ship) into a missile. When the MFD activates, the focused ship would automatically point its nose at the target, and fly until it is at a certain configurable distance from the target. Then, it will detonate with a configurable vessel deletion radius, while at the same time spewing smoke all over the place (with the smoke amount proportional to the damage, UNLIKE BombMFD). This would enable, for example, using ShuttlePBs as missiles against rockets taking off (simply activate MFD while in focus in a PB and set a massive destruction radius), or alas, a solution to the stupid solution I have to intercept ICBMs.

 

[Lucy]

My primary question would be, why does this have to be an MFD?

 

[quantum1423]

1. MFDs are fun :lol:
2. MFDs can be opened by any vessel. This means that people could easily hack together missiles with Spacecraft3 and attach them to craft using Universal Cargo Deck.

 

[RisingFury]

Well, OBSP already allows you to create your own missiles - real or fictional ones and I've started ground work for the ASAT as well. Give it some time so we can get more features, content and bug fixes and we'll release...

 

[mojoey]

Do you mean MFD like the TV missile display? in BF3? Granted, with a lot taken away, and changed

 

[quantum1423]

Did you carefully read my first post? :lol:

My request is for an MFD which makes the currently focused vessel chase a selected target at full throttle and then explode massively (and deleting both itself and the target) when it gets within, say, 3 meters.

 

[Urwumpe]

Did you carefully read my first post? :lol:

My request is for an MFD which makes the currently focused vessel chase a selected target at full throttle and then explode massively (and deleting both itself and the target) when it gets within, say, 3 meters.

That would be a pretty tough challenge alone to work for all vessels. An XR5 does not only look like a carrying yak cow, it flies like one. And even a XR2 is not really maneuverable compared to what missiles do.

And manual control would also permit you to do that, without MFD, if you use the docking HUD mode for following a cooperative target - or just surface HUD and some eyeball.

 

[RisingFury]

And manual control would also permit you to do that, without MFD, if you use the docking HUD mode for following a cooperative target - or just surface HUD and some eyeball.

At orbital velocities? I'm inclined to say... GOOD LUCK.

It's tough to even fly one plane into another with relative velocities ~500 m/s with both targets having a large cross-section.

 

[Izack]

You can try IMFDs Find function and hope for the best... :hide:

 

[Urwumpe]

At orbital velocities? I'm inclined to say... GOOD LUCK.

It's tough to even fly one plane into another with relative velocities ~500 m/s with both targets having a large cross-section.

Yes, but you won't be much worse than a autopilot with some training, if your vessel is not extremely maneuverable.

 

[RisingFury]

Yes, but you won't be much worse than a autopilot with some training, if your vessel is not extremely maneuverable.

I don't know... I tried with missiles inside the atmosphere when I was testing against the OBSP missile guidance. I could do ok under low velocities, but quite poorly at high.

Autopilot starts to excel at high velocities. The calculations it makes become more accurate because the changes in target's acceleration become smaller compared to the relative velocities...

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Grab some of the Polyot coding from igel's [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=4419"]R-7 Early Missions.[/ame] It tracks a target, manuevers to track, and blows up when a certain range is reached. Not all that accurate, especially against targets that are more than a few hundred meters away in the same orbit, but it's a good starting point.

 

[quantum1423]

I'm looking for something atmospheric, so orbital is out of the question

I do know of several MFDs which can track objects, but they all use RCS only. If there was a tracker which uses aerodynamic surfaces and blows the ship up when in range, that's what I want.

---------- Post added at 01:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 AM ----------

For ASAT, a hackish solution would be to put a 10-megaton nuke into the ASAT and then detonate it when you get within like 5 kilometers, making an enormous explosion in the sky.

 

[Urwumpe]

For ASAT, a hackish solution would be to put a 10-megaton nuke into the ASAT and then detonate it when you get within like 5 kilometers, making an enormous explosion in the sky.

Sorry, but can you even imagine how powerful 10 megatons are, especially in space? The US Safeguard system used only a 6 MT nuke for intercepting warheads. And alone the 1.4 MT explosion of Starfish Prime was devastating in terms of spaceflight safety - such explosions simply don't know friends or enemies, they only know targets.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_Prime"]Starfish Prime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


Kinetic energy works well enough. at 15 km/s impact velocity, every kilogram impactor produces as much impact energy as 40 kg TNT. You just need to hit a target, that usually can't evade you.

And kinetic energy impactors usually don't kill all satellites in LEO. There is only a cloud of debris that can do harm, but compared to what nuclear explosions will do even days after the explosion itself, it is harmless.

If you explode nukes in space, you are desperate enough to take the damage on yourself for acceptable.

 

[quantum1423]

What if an inordinate amount of conventional explosives were used? Something that will obliterate everything within 10km...

 

[Urwumpe]

What if an inordinate amount of conventional explosives were used? Something that will obliterate everything within 10km...

Well, it is space. Blast doesn't help you. Also, you think too "brute" there. Of course the soldiers rule of "if brute force doesn't solve a problem, you are not applying enough for it" applies here as well.

But remember: There is not only your enemies satellite in space, but also your own satellites, that you might want to keep. Destroying all satellites is not in your interest. The debris cloud of a single satellite already spreads out over a large volume of space after a few days and will after 3 months cover the whole of Earth.

if you overlap enough satellites, you have a Kessler effect: The number of fragments created by satellites getting hit by already existing fragments exceeds the number of fragments removed by reentry - you have a chain reaction that will at increasing pace destroy all spacecraft around Earth.

of course: Orbiter won't really help you simulating this properly. a single satellite fragmentation (collision or explosion) usually results in around 1000-3000 fragments, big enough to disable or destroy another satellite and a few hundred million dust fragments, that can degrade solar arrays or sensor optics.

So, back at square one: You want point strikes. Did you already look at sputniks Uragan add-on?

 

[quantum1423]

I think that people are missing the point here. What I want is something to intercept ICBMs in the descent phase. Like the Patriot missile on steroids. The aforementioned 10-km-radius conventional explosion would happen around 40 km high in the atmosphere.

It does bring the question though of whether the widespread fallout from a shattered nuke 40 kilometers in the sky is any better than the relatively limited fallout from an explosion at ground zero.

This is also why I think an MFD would be great. With MFDs, you can easily turn available resources, like ShuttlePBs, into missiles. ShuttlePBs do not need to be super maneuverable - it only needs to maneuver into a 180 degree head-on collision with the ICBM - exactly what I do with AAMissile now.

Sputnik's addon is seemingly an ASAT. In the atmosphere, ASATs can't even take to the air, let alone intercept an ISS-module-sized ICBM warhead coming in at 6 km/s.

 

[Urwumpe]

A ICBM warhead is still 4 km/s fast when it explodes at low altitude, you sure can imagine that it isn't an easy target. Modern warheads are also pretty maneuverable during reentry.

Also, the warhead will need just about 30 seconds from 100 km down to 4 km.

Look at the Sprint or Gazelle rockets for reference what terminal defense (less than 100 km) means in terms of effort. It is extreme engineering, despite them being nuclear.

It is still pretty fast despite being only 1/3 as fast as a ICBM warhead today.

 

[quantum1423]

Well, the thing is that I can intercept a Minuteman ICBM (providing I launch the ShuttlePB exactly from the impact point) if the radial velocity is zero; i.e. I fly the intercepting plane so that the Minuteman stays at the same position on the screen. The shuttle is launched when the Minuteman warhead reaches 200 km, and the air-to-air missile is launched when the Minuteman reaches 50 km. Impact occurs at 15 km in the air.

So, it is possible I believe. I just want an MFD which will make the task easier and more extensible (perhaps a larger-sized missile for realism?)

 

[Urwumpe]

If you launch from the impact site, it sure isn't that hard. Just wait... *smirks*

So you just want a MFD that gives you angular velocity of the target?