Windows 8 developer preview version available

[n122vu]

I heard somewhere that you have a choice between the new dashboard, or a classic style Desktop, is that true? That'll probably be a major part in deciding whether or not to upgrade for me.

I can confirm this is true. However, clicking the start button doesn't bring up your programs menu, rather it takes you back to the Metro interface.

I installed it on a ThinkPad T400 yesterday near the end of the day. Didn't have a lot of time to play, but I have a few missing devices to try and get installed. Will probably get those taken care of later today.

My first impression - this is an OS that is clearly designed with Tablet PCs targeted as the primary device, however it does have the classic desktop option, to an extent. I can't decide whether I like the Metro interface yet, I need more time to form an opinion.

I was told earlier by a colleague that in this OS, Microsoft is targeting people who 'want a little desktop capability on their tablet, and a little tablet-like experience in their desktop/laptop.' I would characterize that as an accurate description of what I have seen so far. More to come...

 

[agentgonzo]

However, clicking the start button doesn't bring up your programs menu, rather it takes you back to the Metro interface.

My first impression - this is an OS that is clearly designed with Tablet PCs targeted as the primary device

I sincerely hope that MS go back in this decision before releasing Windows 8, otherwise it will die in the market worse than Vista did (when people were downgrading to XP after purchase).

Tablets and desktops are two very different beasts. You can have one common codebase or even OS across the two of them, but you need to have the interface being appropriate to the device you are using. The Metro UI is fine for tablets/phones where you interact with it with your fingers, but for desktops where you have much finer input resolution (mouse and keyboard) the Metro UI will be severely limiting to the point where people will give up and go back to 7.

You can align themes across the two of them, but you can't force phone/tablet UIs onto a desktop anymore than you can force desktop UIs onto a tablet/phone. Having the start button bring up the Metro UI on a desktop is horrible in my opinion - it does not have enough functionality to be the centrepoint of my computer's functionality and I don't want it appearing across the middle/whole of my monitors obscuring my work.

Look at the only other two (major) companies that make OSes:
Apple: OSX & iOS
Google: ChromeOS and Android

Both may have common code bases, but they are set up for the target platform - that being phone/tablet or desktop. Not one OS to rule them all. To use a ridiculous analogy, people have failed at making marketable aquatic cars because boats and cars are so very different to use. The same goes for tablets/desktops.

 

[n122vu]

I completely agree with you on all points. I am glad MS has taken the approach of getting the OS out there early, before it is finished, so it can receive feedback from developers and end-users alike, and (hopefully) go back and tweak and/or fix some of these items.

For me personally, at this point, I don't see anything that will make me want to go out and buy Win8 next year. A year from now, as the OS is tweaked, I may see it differently. Again, still too early for me to give an honest overall opinion, but so far, no double-takes or 'oh-wow' yet.

 

[Saturn V]

For me personally, at this point, I don't see anything that will make me want to go out and buy Win8 next year.

Never saw anything that made me want to run out and buy Vista, or 7.

A year from now, as the OS is tweaked, I may see it differently. Again, still too early for me to give an honest overall opinion, but so far, no double-takes or 'oh-wow' yet.

Nope. Still don't. Running XP Pro quite happily.

There is absolutely positively no reason to even mention XP any more.

Bullst

Windows 7 is a significant step up over XP. It is far more stable - it never crashes.

Used XP since about a year after release. It has NEVER crashed. Machines, yes. XP, no.

 

[TSPenguin]

I completely agree with the each it's own philosophy. One of the reasons why I am quite shocked that contrary to earlier statements, it seems like you can not turn metro simply off.

UI design wise I am pretty much with Artlav and prefer the smaller and lighter taskbar. I missed the easy quickstart too but nowadays the pin to startmenu feature coupled with restricting the search feature to the startmenu is more my thing.
On a related note: Does anyone know off hand if I can get my old XPesque right click menu for the taskbar items back?

8 will be installed in a VM shortly, for now: Fooooood

 

[Artlav]

Tried the Win 8...
The Android-esque interface with mouse feels weird.

To ensure that all Windows features work correctly, 
Windows might create additional partitions for system files.

WTF are you think you are? What gives you the right? :compbash:

Make the lawyers happy by reading this. 
(There won't b a quiz later)

Okay, a sense of humour from Microsoft? :blink:
That's new.

8 will be installed in a VM shortly

Be advised, it crashes Sun (Oracle?) VirtualBox on login.

Never saw anything that made me want to run out and buy Vista, or 7.

If you have a Sandy Bridge laptop or a quad-core 64bit CPU, then Windows 7 is a must - XP plainly lags behind.

Otherwise, i totally agree..

 

[Jarvitä]

Why would I want a smartphone UI on my two 26" monitors?

I never asked for this.

 

[Hielor]

I sincerely hope that MS go back in this decision before releasing Windows 8, otherwise it will die in the market worse than Vista did (when people were downgrading to XP after purchase).

Tablets and desktops are two very different beasts. You can have one common codebase or even OS across the two of them, but you need to have the interface being appropriate to the device you are using. The Metro UI is fine for tablets/phones where you interact with it with your fingers, but for desktops where you have much finer input resolution (mouse and keyboard) the Metro UI will be severely limiting to the point where people will give up and go back to 7.

You can align themes across the two of them, but you can't force phone/tablet UIs onto a desktop anymore than you can force desktop UIs onto a tablet/phone. Having the start button bring up the Metro UI on a desktop is horrible in my opinion - it does not have enough functionality to be the centrepoint of my computer's functionality and I don't want it appearing across the middle/whole of my monitors obscuring my work.

Look at the only other two (major) companies that make OSes:
Apple: OSX & iOS
Google: ChromeOS and Android

Both may have common code bases, but they are set up for the target platform - that being phone/tablet or desktop. Not one OS to rule them all. To use a ridiculous analogy, people have failed at making marketable aquatic cars because boats and cars are so very different to use. The same goes for tablets/desktops.

The main reason for using Windows on tablets (rather than another custom OS) is to allow you to run anything you want (Office, Orbiter, etc) on that machine.

Can you give specific examples of how you feel the Metro UI is limiting you? In my experience, all of the functionality of the start menu is still there, it's just spread out (and some of it is a little hard to find).

---------- Post added at 10:11 ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 ----------

To ensure that all Windows features work correctly, 
Windows might create additional partitions for system files.

WTF are you think you are? What gives you the right? :compbash:

Pretty sure this is referring specifically to BitLocker. There will be an additional confirmation if you enable it that it will be making a new partition and moving system files to that instead. It's not going to be randomly making new partitions.

 

[Artlav]

Okay, writing from Windows 8.

The interface looks hollywood-ish, and slap-on confuses on first run, but can quickly be getted used to.

IE worked flawlessly downloading Firefox.

There is a proportional speed mouse enabled by default, which feels unusual.
Disabled in mouse settings, "enchance pointer precision"

Copy dialog do looks nice.

Trying to create a folder in program files hangs the explorer. Beta software?

The lack of start menu is a bit annoying, haven't found a fix for that yet.
Neither can i find where it puts the shortcuts for the installed programs.

Half of MetroGUI (?) is filled with useless stuff, half with some common programs, once again no obvious way to add or subtract.

Instead of right click you have to do right click-and-hold-for-a-second, like on PDAs.
Sue them for reduce of working performance.

Orbiter runs out of the box, performance feels good (nothing to compare with as well).

General impression is kind of good - no trainwrecks, no sticks in the wheel.
Nice, stable working environment.
Not for accountant with allergy on changes, but seems to be functional.

Can you give specific examples of how you feel the Metro UI is limiting you? In my experience, all of the functionality of the start menu is still there, it's just spread out (and some of it is a little hard to find).

Maybe, but it lacks intuitivness (or a manual, F1 does nothing)

Pretty sure this is referring specifically to BitLocker. There will be an additional confirmation if you enable it that it will be making a new partition and moving system files to that instead. It's not going to be randomly making new partitions.

It won't install without making a junk inaccessible partition without explainin it's reasons or giving an option to ignore.
That's rude.

---------- Post added at 21:31 ---------- Previous post was at 21:30 ----------

Where is the shutdown button...?

 

[Hielor]

Half of MetroGUI (?) is filled with useless stuff, half with some common programs, once again no obvious way to add or subtract.

Instead of right click you have to do right click-and-hold-for-a-second, like on PDAs.
Sue them for reduce of working performance.

Simple right-click works fine for me...

Maybe, but it lacks intuitivness (or a manual, F1 does nothing)

Yeah, unfortunately

It won't install without making a junk inaccessible partition without explainin it's reasons or giving an option to ignore.
That's rude.

The reason is that it then will boot from the new partition and encrypt the existing partition--booting from the other partition allows you to completely encrypt the existing one, and have the decryption on the new partition (you can't boot directly to something that's encrypted).

Where is the shutdown button...?

Under settings, or in the lower-right of the ctrl-alt-del screen.

 

[Wishbone]

Encryption? WTF is that? Who needs encryption anyway? I want my disks to be plaintext, just in case!

Not for accountant with allergy on changes, but seems to be functional.

The first part sums up my attitude...

 

[TSPenguin]

Under settings, or in the lower-right of the ctrl-alt-del screen.

That seems to be a trend on small systems. I have seen it put there in a few minimalistic linux distros as well. I guess it makes sense if you are one of those guys that go: "I want to configure my machine to be in the off state now"
TBH, I think it is to save space and stems from the logic of just pressing the power button. Meh.

The lack of start menu is a bit annoying, haven't found a fix for that yet.

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer
Change RPEnabled to 0 to get the old start menu back. Seems to work on the servar variant at least. I hope this will be properly configurable in the RTM.

 

[Artlav]

Tried VS2011 included with the DVD.

Developer license for making programs?!?!?
That's not an iPhone, it's a computer!

Not a single Orbiter add-on compiles, some claim to need .NET 4.0, which won't download because it's supposed to be included with the OS (?), rest give "Unknown error."

Oh the humanity...
I do hope it's just a demo-version issue.
Otherwise it's just a five-star prison cell.

Simple right-click works fine for me...

Somewhere it does, somewhere - not, can't find a pattern.

The reason is that it then will boot from the new partition and encrypt the existing partition--booting from the other partition allows you to completely encrypt the existing one, and have the decryption on the new partition (you can't boot directly to something that's encrypted).

What if i don't want to encrypt the partition?
What if disk crashes and i'll need to save the files?
What if i's want to install something else?
There should be an option, even for foresight of what-if-he'd-want-it-later.

Under settings, or in the lower-right of the ctrl-alt-del screen.

Half the time start menu opens into settings, devices, etc, half the time it opens the metroui. Looks like you need to hover over the lowest, leftmost pixel to get the "menu".

It's "devices" under settings in that place, and no other place with settings.
What have i missed?

Sure, there are 5 other ways to shut down, but a simple button in start menu is the most comfortable one.

 

[Turbinator]

If we complain enough I am sure they will bring back the Windows 7 start menu, that is part of the point of them releasing their alpha builds.
So far that is my only negative comment regarding Windows 8. If I am not forced to use the Metro UI I will be happy.

 

[Ark]

Just a general Windows question, since I can admit I'm a position where some of you know a lot more about the subject than I do.

I've got a Core 2 Quad Q9400 CPU in my machine currently, will that function any differently (i.e. better) under 7 than my current 32 bit XP?

 

[Hielor]

Encryption? WTF is that? Who needs encryption anyway? I want my disks to be plaintext, just in case!

Enterprise users who have sensitive data on a laptop that they don't want getting stolen.

If you don't want your disks encrypted, don't turn on BitLocker.

Developer license for making programs?!?!?
That's not an iPhone, it's a computer!

Developer license is needed for MetroUI-based apps, given that the only way to distribute them is supposed to be the Windows App Store.

Not a single Orbiter add-on compiles, some claim to need .NET 4.0, which won't download because it's supposed to be included with the OS (?), rest give "Unknown error."

Probably the version of VS2011 there is only intended to make Metro apps.

What if i don't want to encrypt the partition?

Don't enable BitLocker?

What if disk crashes and i'll need to save the files?

That's what the bitlocker recovery key is for.

What if i's want to install something else?

Uhh...

There should be an option, even for foresight of what-if-he'd-want-it-later.

Yes, the option is "don't enable bitlocker if you don't want it."

Half the time start menu opens into settings, devices, etc, half the time it opens the metroui. Looks like you need to hover over the lowest, leftmost pixel to get the "menu".

It's "devices" under settings in that place, and no other place with settings.
What have i missed?

Move the mouse to the far lower left corner so that little menu pops up. The topmost entry in the menu is "settings." Click it. On the right side of the screen, in the bottom, there is "Power".

 

[Wishbone]

Enterprise users who have sensitive data on a laptop that they don't want getting stolen.

Hehe, SOHO users who know zero about encryption and want to have their own share of "snake oil"... Makes my day...

 

[Artlav]

Enterprise users who have sensitive data on a laptop that they don't want getting stolen.

So they reinvented Norton Diskreet. What took them so long?

Developer license is needed for MetroUI-based apps, given that the only way to distribute them is supposed to be the Windows App Store.

Still feels wrong. It sets a dangerous precedent in a real world environment.

That's what the bitlocker recovery key is for.

What if i lose the thumbdrive?
Anyway, not mandatory - not a problem.

Yes, the option is "don't enable bitlocker if you don't want it."

It won't install without allocating the partition, whether i'd like to enable it later or not.
What have i missed?

The topmost entry in the menu is "settings." Click it.

That kind of "under"...
Reasonable, not excessively far off.

 

[Zachstar]

The 2nd partition is nothing new. Windows 7 did it and it uses very little space. It it has a serious security use then keep it. Its not in the way and you dont see it in explorer.

Now I do have to kind of halfway agree that the straight to metro is annoying for a power user. I suspect MS will hear a great bit of commotion of that and allow power users to select a standard start menu.

Again what I suspect Metro will come into its own is with those home users. You know the ones that log in to get recipes and check stocks and facebook. A real market opportunity with great risk. It was good to get this public alpha out early for feedback to reduce the risk. More options will greatly increase the chance for market success. Especially with the far better load time and operating speed.

BTW I like the new login screen. I suspect that it is indeed how it boots so fast. Will it be protected by loaded Antimalware or will it run with just standard windows defender? I ask because it seems to be separately loaded from the rest of the OS now.

Artlav why is a dev licence to make metro apps bad? They don't want it getting flooded with half assed apps that flood the net connection or CPU when in basic running mode. Everything else that is normally installed appears on the far right side. I see no issue with this and I hope they take a similar approach with Microsoft Flight to prevent the flood of crapware that blocks out legit quality small developers from attention.

---------- Post added at 01:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:26 PM ----------

Just a general Windows question, since I can admit I'm a position where some of you know a lot more about the subject than I do.

I've got a Core 2 Quad Q9400 CPU in my machine currently, will that function any differently (i.e. better) under 7 than my current 32 bit XP?

Yes. In almost every way Win 7 beats XP on performance. I remember watching people installing it on Pentium IIs with actually useable results during its alpha/beta period.

In this alpha Windows 8 is surpassing even 7 in certain areas in performance. The others I am sure are just bugs.

XP is done and gone. It is getting harder to secure harder to maintain and developers are starting to say enough is enough.

 

[Artlav]

why is a dev licence to make metro apps bad?

Because you have to pay for making programs. And not on some flashy gadget, but on a real, need-it-to-work computer. That could easily go from pay-for-making-metro-apps to pay-for-making-apps to only-run-apps-that-were-downloaded-from-the-windowsmarket.

After that it's either the end of Microsoft or the end of home computers as we know them.

Done right it would do what it says on the box - only allow devs who are willing to pay a retainer for the quality of their programs to sell them.
Only nothing ever goes right.