Project First addon - have multiple questions

[Dambuster]

Hey everyone

I've just started making my first proper addon, which is a spaceship I'm basing off the Naboo starcruiser-type-thing (I forgot its actual name, but it's in Episode 1, it's shiny and silver ).

I've attached a screenshot below, and have a few questions.

So far I'm using 3dsMax 2009 to edit on the model (I originally made the 3D model in Wings3D). From 3dsmax, I'm using 3ds2msh to export it, and then Mesh Wizard to get it ready for Orbiter (rotating it, working out groups for animation. I have the ailerons/elevators and one landing gear working so far, but am running into problem.

First question: how do I create (using 3dsmax) what Mesh Wizard will recognise as a 'group', which I can then animate? At the moment, I'm texturing various areas with different colours in 3dsmax, since those areas are then shown as separate groups in Mesh Wizard. However this seems quite awkward and inefficient. Is there a faster way?

Secondly, I'd quite like to create a proper texture - i.e. draw an image on a template, and have Orbiter 'project' that onto my 3D model. Could someone please tell me how to do this? Please note that I am a complete newbie when it comes to texturing etc.

Thanks for any/all help!

 

[Spike Spiegel]

I use 3DS Max 2009 as well. I'm also kind of a noob. But I did find some info that may be very helpful to you when you're trying to texture your model.

http://www.waylon-art.com/uvw_tutorial/uvwtut_01.html

You want to use the UVW Unwrap for laying out your model's parts on the texture. Then you export the resulting image when you're finished (it will be a wireframe). Then you can open that in Photoshop or whatever you prefer and use it as a guide, painting your texture in place of it. I like to leave the wireframe of the UVW map in a layer above the texture I'm painting, and reduce the opacity so I can mostly see through it but it's still visible.

Just remember not to use a Multi/Sub Object material. Orbiter won't support it. I had to re-create my UVW maps because I messed that up.

Regarding the mesh groups, I use the max2msh plugin ([ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=4185"]max2msh v1.3[/ame]) to export straight from Max. It allows you to rotate the model right from there. I couldn't get Mesh Wizard to even load so I didn't bother with it. Anyway, it seems that whatever polygons are "attached" to each other as part of the same object in Max, that will be a group in Orbiter. Use the Mesh Debugger plugin in Orbiter to see what each group's numbers are (if you didn't know that already).

I hope this information helps you.

 

[Zatnikitelman]

Wings3d has the capability of generating a UV map for the entire model. Highlight what you want textured, select the UV system...hmmm...why don't I just try to link a tutorial:
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/wiki/HowTo:Texture_in_Wings3d
There, that should at least get you started.
Welcome to the Wonderful World of Development!

 

[Hielor]

Also, you can export directly to .msh from Wings: [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3901"]Wings3D .msh Exporter[/ame]

Also, in the .msh format, there's no way to have a group use more than one texture. Different texture means different group.

 

[Donamy]

AC3D is the easiest way to model and texture and has a great plugin for Orbiter. But you didn't hear it from me.

 

[Istochnikov]

A sugerence i told you is to read the tutorials available in the help menu of 3DS Max. I use the 2010 version. A little complicated at first, but you'll run as silk when you understand it

 

[Dambuster]

Thank you for all your help!

One problem I've just run in to is that after exporting to .3ds, and then (using 3ds2msh) to .msh, the Orbiter Mesh Wizard tool displays half of the mesh as being flipped along the z axis. I did use 3dsmax to mirror the mesh at one point, but everything I've tried so far hasn't helped fix the problem - does anyone know how to completely join 2 objects in 3dsmax, and whether that might solve this?

 

[Notebook]

Its not answering your question! But, have you tried max2msh as Spike Spiegel's suggestion above. I've tried all the Max/gmax converters/exporters, and that one seems to give least problems.

N,

 

[Dambuster]

Its not answering your question! But, have you tried max2msh as Spike Spiegel's suggestion above. I've tried all the Max/gmax converters/exporters, and that one seems to give least problems.

N,

I've tried it, but whenever I attempt to export my model I get an error mentioning opacity, and multi/sub-objects:

--Unknown property: "opacity" in #Multi/Sub-Object etc etc etc.

I guess this goes back to what Spike Spiegel said about those Multi/Sub Objects - I'll try and work out what they are and how to remove them.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Yep, it looks like you used a Multi/Sub-Object material. That should be easily spotted in the materials window. Just remember that you can have many objects that share one material, but you can't have more than one material on an object.

I also ran into a problem with mirrored or referenced objects. It's a quick way to create the other side of your symmetrical ship, but once you get it into Orbiter, the mirrored side gets turned inside out. You must take the side you mirrored and attach it to the original side. That's what worked for me at least. When you select the object there should be an "attach" button in the right side menu. After you click that, click the object you want to attach it to.

Hmm.... I just can't remember if you select the original first and then attach the mirrored copy, or if you select the mirrored copy first and then attach to the original. Anyway, I hope this helps.

 

[dansteph]

For mutli/subobject problem, select all parts of your model in max, right click and choose "convert to editable mesh" this should get ride of this problem.

Dan

 

[Dambuster]

Thanks for everyone's advice so far - it's been a massive help!!!

Do I need to convert my UV map into a .dds file once I'm done with it? Also, how large (in terms of pixels) should the map be - I've been using 1024x1024, but everything looks pretty blurry and messed up right now

Also, there's a specific part of my fuselage mesh that I'd like to smooth out - but I'm having loads of trouble getting 3ds max to only smooth that section, it will only smooth the entire thing for me.

 

[dansteph]

Modelizing is an art, it seem easy at start but to become skilled you need to know a ton of things and a lot of training.

1024x1024 is the standard yet as higher might not be supported by too many computers actually. Google with "tutorial 3dsmax unwrap", this is the technic to use for texturing.

About perf in Orbiter don't exceed 30'000 poly and 10 materials, (3-5 textures)
Once your model completed MERGE all your groups that share the same material, you can gain 50% FPS while doing this. It's easy with 3dsmax.

You can do nice things by knowing "how to"

Arrow, 10'000 poly, 2 textures of 1024x1024, 7 groups (due to anim, you must keep animated group separated)
http://orbiter.dansteph.com/screenshot/dansteph/UcgoPreviewBase26.jpg

Truck:
4000 poly, 1 texture of 1024x1024, 5 groups.
http://orbiter.dansteph.com/screenshot/dansteph/UcgoPreviewtruck1.jpg

Of course if you do a main ship you can go for 30'000-40'000 poly with 5x1024x1024 but remember to MERGE all groups that share the same material at the end. Not doing this is an absolute killer for framerate.

And remember: one well done texture worth 10'000 polygons for details. Look about tutorial for 3dsmax but remember most of them are done for rendering, not real time simulation.

ABOUT DDS:
Download the dds plugin for 3dsmax, photoshop can support this format also so you don't need any format mess.

Hope this help ?

Dan

 

[Dambuster]

That is...amazingly helpful. Thank you!!!

 

[Spike Spiegel]

I just remembered something else that might be helpful, since you mentioned smoothing your shape. I think you might be looking for the smoothing groups. Check out this guide:

http://fgiservices.com/Tutorials/Text/Smoothing/Smoothing_home.html

 

[Dambuster]

Firstly, thank you everyone so far!!!


I had to take a break from this due to schoolwork, but I've just been trying to create groups of different faces in order to animate them from the Orbiter .ini file. I tried to select different faces, and do "Groups --> Group", but all the options in that menu are greyed out and unselectible. Could someone please tell me how to get different bits of my model into a group that I can then animate easily? (Also, speaking of animations, is typing different values into the spacecraft's .ini file the only way to animate your model in Orbiter?)

Another thing: once I finally manage to create my textures in Paintshop Pro/3ds max, how do I get them onto my model in Orbiter?

 

[Spike Spiegel]

I've just been trying to create groups of different faces in order to animate them from the Orbiter .ini file. I tried to select different faces, and do "Groups --> Group", but all the options in that menu are greyed out and unselectible. Could someone please tell me how to get different bits of my model into a group that I can then animate easily?

You can "group" objects in Max, but not faces. A "group" in Max isn't the same as a mesh group in Orbiter.

In 3DS Max, any object becomes a "group" in Orbiter. (That's the way it worked for me at least.) So let's say you have a number of faces that are part of one of your objects and you want to animate just those faces. You'll have to select those faces and "Detach" them so that they become a separate object. You may have seen the Detach button in the right hand menu in Max. Of course, now you have a hole in your object that you'll have to patch, but that shouldn't be too hard.

Another thing: once I finally manage to create my textures in Paintshop Pro/3ds max, how do I get them onto my model in Orbiter?

I know that the max2msh plugin adds the textures you've used into a list in the .msh file, at the end of the file. You may need to open the .msh file in a text editor and edit the paths if you've placed your .dds textures in a subdirectory of Orbiter's Textures folder. (The plugin assumes you've stuck them in the Textures folder.)

Don't forget to read 3dmodel.pdf in the Orbitersdk/doc subfolder. You may find more answers in there.

 

[Dambuster]

Ok, thank you - I think I'm finally getting a basic understanding of how all this stuff works!

---------- Post added at 08:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:19 PM ----------

Ok, I've just split the parts of my model up into different parts in 3ds max, and am now working on the texturing. My current problem is in exporting the UV map into a .png format - the only thing I know about which can do this is Texporter (from the tutorial that Spike Spiegel posted earlier). However, when I try and use Texporter to export the UV map, it seems I have to do repeatedly for each object, which doesn't seem right. Is there a faster and/or simpler method that I'm missing?

 

[Dambuster]

Well this project had sort of stagnated until this week - I got back to school and got swamped with work (as usual ), but I've got some time on my hands now to work on this. I've tried to create a texture for my mesh, but with absolutely no luck so far - everything I put on the UV map winds up pixelated and distorted, and when I try and load this pixelated mess into Orbiter, it simply crashes .

I've attached a zip file containing an unmapped 3dsmax file of my mesh. Could someone please take a look at it, and tell me how to create a workable texture for it? Sorry for being so hopeless on this, but I really am stuck.

Thanks so much in advance for any help!!!

 

[george7378]

For the creation of a group, Gmax (my program) requires you to convert it to an editable polygon, and then you can select 'attach list' on the right to select what you want to add to the group. I'm not sure of similarities.

For texturing, Gamx allows you to convert to editable poly, create a UVWmap, and drag and drop textures from the materials editor. Again, I'm not sure of similarities.

There is also a great exporter which allows for you to create a .msh file straight from the gamx model, and it even sorts out the textures on the mesh for you.