Fun With Naval Terminology

Andy44

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Currently somewhat hooked on World of Warships. Pretty quick and dirty action

Isn't that a smart phone game?

I've been playing a sea battle flight sim on my phone called "Pacific Navy Fighter: Commander's Edition" which simulates battles between US and Japanese carrier forces in WWII. It's not super realistic, but it's got enough eye candy, including nicely detailed battleships blazing away at each other, to make it lots of fun to play.
 

mojoey

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Currently somewhat hooked on World of Warships. Pretty quick and dirty action

Ohhh...that makes your Location box unintentionally hilarious, and I *love* it.

Send me a PM if you want and we can Div up and play some time.
 

PhantomCruiser

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I'm still in the low tiers. Not a big fan of the South Dakota because I want to drive her like a cruiser. Danced last night with another BB (Wyoming?) but I had the tactics on him. He closed enough that we engaged w/ secondaries but he was already in trouble w/ 3 citadel hits (and on fire from a barrage of HE). A cruiser sat back and watched the action rather than get between us. We figured he knew he was in trouble an had nothing to lose.

@Andy- I don't know if they have an android or IOS version of it. I downloaded it on my PC just to see it, wound up getting hooked.

Looks like there is an Android app. At work with a crappy signal so I can't check it out atm.
 
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mojoey

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I'm still in the low tiers. Not a big fan of the South Dakota because I want to drive her like a cruiser. Danced last night with another BB (Wyoming?) but I had the tactics on him. He closed enough that we engaged w/ secondaries but he was already in trouble w/ 3 citadel hits (and on fire from a barrage of HE). A cruiser sat back and watched the action rather than get between us. We figured he knew he was in trouble an had nothing to lose.

@Andy- I don't know if they have an android or IOS
version of it. I downloaded it on my PC just to see it, wound up getting hooked.

Looks like there is an Android app. At work with a crappy signal so I can't check it out atm.

Same. The highest I have is a Tier V destroyer, the Nicholas. I'm not in love with the BBs as much as I thought I would be, though it is amazingly fun to delete someone with a lucky main battery salvo. The Cruisers are...well...the Phoenix is a let down coming from the St Louis, and I can't imagine the Omaha will be much better...but...Dat Cleveland Doe.
 

PhantomCruiser

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That's what I'd heard (about the Phoenix). I do like running around in the St. Louis, very nice reload times make for a good amount of rounds into a target (while alternating HE and AP).
I only have room for one more ship, how do I sell off or get more slots? That Russian cruiser we start off with? Couldn't use it very effectively so i'd like to get rid of it.

Citadel hits... We called the citadel the armored compartment inside the bridge. It went from the 05 level down to plot. Twas an upright cylinder. We never considered anthing else a citadel like the game does. All the engine and boiler rooms were inside the armored belt (and that's what we called it).
 
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Athena

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That's what I'd heard (about the Phoenix). I do like running around in the St. Louis, very nice reload times make for a good amount of rounds into a target (while alternating HE and AP).

Just remember...always spam HE in the St. Louis. :lol:
 

mojoey

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Really, in any USN Cruiser that has sub-203mm main batteries, you fire HE unless it's another Cruiser.

In regards to opening up slots, the Russian Cruiser line is coming tomorrow, so if any of those ships interest you, sell the Orlan when you buy the next ship.

For those who are interested in getting WoWS, but are curious as to how the ships are named, each ship represents it's entire class, and is named for the lead ship of the class. There are modifications you can research and mount on the ship that will represent later modifications to the ship, like the refit of the New York class BB that removed the lattice work spotting towers and replaced it with the familiar tripod superstructure.

I'm terms of specific ships, you're out of luck. While there's an Essex Class carrier, there is no Enterprise. There are certain premium ships, like the forthcoming Saipan that have regular tech tree counterparts, but you cannot rename your ship, as of yet.
 

Hielor

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I only have room for one more ship, how do I sell off or get more slots? That Russian cruiser we start off with? Couldn't use it very effectively so i'd like to get rid of it.
Have you tried right-clicking it?

Personally, I'm really enjoying the carriers. Very different sort of game, but you can definitely be a game-changer for your team if you're good.
 

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Citadel hits... We called the citadel the armored compartment inside the bridge. It went from the 05 level down to plot. Twas an upright cylinder. We never considered anthing else a citadel like the game does. All the engine and boiler rooms were inside the armored belt (and that's what we called it).

The use of citadel to mean the area enclosed by the deck and belt on warships with an all-or-nothing armor scheme is historical. Earlier ships had the entire length of the ship armored, with the armor being thinner over the bow and stern, but in 1912 the US Navy adopted a philosophy of armoring a central region to full thickness and leaving everything else unarmored. The rest of the world followed suit after WWI. The central armored box was called the citadel.
 

PhantomCruiser

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Just saw the video for the Russian cruisers (had to watch twice Dasha is, umm distracting?)
 

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Presenting the Military Integrated Language for Equipment Symbology, or MILES system (named after the inventor:p): useful for diagramming my game strategies in Excel at work:)

Code:
)-          Destroyer
))-         Light Cruiser
)=          Cruiser
))=         Battle Cruiser
)≡ or )+    Battleship
)g          Gunboat
)e          Destroyer Escort (or frigate)
)m          Missile Boat
))m         Monitor
)r          Recon
)s          Sub
)T          Tender
)>          Transport
)o          Orbital Station
)x          Manned torpedo (kamikaze, very nasty in SG)
#           Dock
 

TMac3000

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So, as promised, here it is--my idea of ship taxonomy
Battleship
In the days of wooden sailing ships, a “ship of line” was one that was meant to go toe to toe with the big boys and come out in (mostly) one piece. They were ships that were meant to fight other ships. Hence the transition to the term “battleship.” Modern battleships, at least in U.S. Navy policy, are meant for shore bombardment.

In Hasbro's old game, the phrase “You sunk my battleship!” was intended to be spoken with feeling, and there's a reason for that. No battleship in Star General goes for under 220 RPs. Unless damaged, they can reliably destroy anything except another battleship (and possibly a battle cruiser) in one round, and it is virtually impossible to bring one down without losing at least one ship.

If you can bring a battleship into orbit of an enemy world, you're sure to discover their other function; the 500-RP-a-shot neutronium bomb destroys whatever it hits on a planet, as well as anything within one hex of the impact point. Choose your targets carefully—your battleship's guns can fire as many of these as you have the cash for, but they come from the purchase panel, so you only get them in the first ground turn.

Hressan battleships have a clear advantage in unrefueled travel range, while the Khalians' Weasel 1 carries the most ammo.

Cruiser
The ultimate general purpose warship. Cruisers obviously don't pack the wallop of a battleship, but they're faster and a lot cheaper. They are best used for punching your way through escorts so you can get at that capital ship, and for stopping the enemy's heavier guns from reaching your own high-value ships.

The Khalian Minx-class cruiser leads the pack: it has the firing range of a battleship, and is almost as powerful as a Xritran battle cruiser!

Destroyer

They used to call these “torpedo-boat destroyers,” because until submarines came along, that's what they did. They are quite good at it in Star General too—the crews of lightly armored missile boats know they are in deep doodoo when destroyers show up.

Where battleships rely on a hefty punch of beam firepower, destroyers use a lot of missiles. And remember—beams damage things, missiles smash them. One of the best use for destroyers sounds a little crazy: taking out battleships. In almost every battle, beams are used before missiles, meaning that your poor little destroyer will get chopped to bits by that battleship before it even gets close. But there is a 25% chance that your destroyer can sneak in, and get it's missiles off first. If that happens, the battleship is toast, and your destroyer doesn't get a scratch.

The Hressan navy's destroyers are the fastest of their type, and can travel the farthest without replenishment, while the Cephians have a slight edge in firepower.

Battle Cruiser
Users: Fleet, Xritra

The guns of a battleship; the armor and speed of a cruiser. Sound like fun? It wasn't. The crew of Britain's HMS Hood found out the hard way that speed doesn't help when you are nose to nose in a battle line, facing the kind of fire your ships are designed to dish out, but not take.

But in Star General, a properly employed battle cruiser can reach it's full awesome potential. One of the coolest things to do is to take a group of five or six battle cruisers, set them alongside the enemy's line of reinforcement to a planet you are attacking, and watch them send hordes of “tin-cans” to die helplessly under your beams as your battle cruisers dash in, zap some enemy ships, and dash back to their starting positions.

These ships are also great for resolving those massive line battles; they can just charge in, plow through enemy lines, and hold open the gaping hole they create, long enough for your battleships and cruisers to flank the planet and close it up.

Between the two classes of battle cruisers in the game, the Xrita Spider-A has longer-ranged guns and greater long-term endurance, while the Alliance's Delos-class has superior firepower.

Light Cruiser
Users: Fleet, Hressan, Khalians, Xritra, Dragonians

Sort of a “battle destroyer,” built to carry heavier guns than a destroyer and get them there quicker than an average cruiser. Light cruisers can stand up to beam fire pretty well, and some of them carry missiles. I don't use them at all, but if I did, I would send them on fast raids against soft, high-value targets like tenders and space docks, that the enemy has unwittingly left unprotected.

The Fleet's Marsoplis-class travels the farthest and the fastest of the light cruisers. The Schleinel prefer their heavier Wolf-class cruiser, while the Cephians choose firepower over speed.

Destroyer-Escort
Users: Fleet, Hressan, Khalians, Xritra, Dragonians, Schleinel

It would not be completely inaccurate to call a destroyer-escort a frigate. This is basically a destroyer built around beam firepower and able to soak up missiles better than a capital ship. Use these to hold enemy destroyers at arms length while your cruisers and battle cruisers volley from behind and zap them one by one.

The Schleinel and the Dragonians hold the edge in this category. The Cephians use their destroyers for the same purposes.

Gunboat
Users: Fleet, Hressan, Xritra, Dragonian

Gunboats are basically a poor man's destroyer escort. They're designed for the exact same purpose, and are even faster and better defended against missile attack. Otherwise, they have no real advantages over a DE. Use them if you can't or won't spare the RPs for destroyer escorts.

Missile Boat

Exactly what it says: a giant missile launcher with a bridge and some engines. Missile boats are very effective against destroyers and DEs, and at tech levels 2 and up they can even take out a first-gen cruiser or battle cruiser without suffering any damage. MBs have about enough armor and shielding to withstand bits of space junk, so protect them well.

Monitor
Users: Fleet, Xritra, Dragonian

Not to be confused with the American Civil War ship of the same name. Where a battle cruiser is essentially a battleship with a cruiser's armor, a monitor is the other way around. They are better able to absorb fire than to deliver it, are the slowest thing you can build in the game that can still move, and in the Fleet and Dragonians' case, carry the firepower of a battleship. (The Xritra Widow 1 is armed primarily with missiles.) Pure defense. Keep them near your space docks.

Orbital Station
Users: Fleet, Hressan, Xritra, Dragonian

Orbital stations, as the name implies, have only station keeping thrusters and can't move. They have the gunnery of a cruiser or battleship, and roughly the same armor and shields. I recommend using monitors instead if you have them.

Manned Torpedo
Users: Cephian, Schleinel, Xritra

A kamikaze ship, straight-up. It goes without saying that to use these, your race has to be either seriously cold-hearted pragmatists, or a little crazy. The Schleinel and Xritra are seriously cold-hearted pragmatists, and the Cephians are a little crazy.

Manned torpedoes are horrifically effective. As few as two will vaporize a brand new battleship. The Xritra's are a bit weaker, but feature a neat “splash” effect that causes light to moderate damage to other ships within one hex of the explosion. Cephian MTs have powerful warheads, but are a bit easier for defenders to pick off. The Schleinel have the deadliest MTs, with superior range and firepower to the other two users.

Tender

Remember our poor destroyer whose radar got trashed? As a warship, all her storage is quite sensibly allocated to fuel and ordinance—she couldn't carry a spare radar. Well, a tender can.

Tenders can replace the things your damage control teams can't fix. Their physical protection is quite well-balanced: destroyer-level beam shields and cruiser-level armor. Nevertheless, don't leave them unprotected. Your tenders should remain safely behind your lines during the battle, and emerge to do their thing after the dust clears.

Contrary to what you might think, tenders are not unarmed; they usually have a few small beam cannons for stopping micrometeorites, and the Cephian and Xritra versions even have missile launchers!

Transport

Space is big. For your troops to get where they are going, they need a ride. Transports are thin-skinned and lightly armed, but seeing as you literally can't win the game without them, they are not the “queens” of the space-battle chess board; they are the kings. Lose them, and you lose that battle.

In addition to its big Matilda-class, the Fleet has a smaller, cheaper transport with more speed and a missile launcher. I've never used a “Spee”, but I suppose they might be good for getting ground reinforcements to important places in a hurry.

The Khalians top the category in ammo yet again, while the Xritra Spinner-1 stands out in carrying capacity but is very weak in every other stat.

Transports have “look-down” radar that allows you to see what is on an enemy planet's surface.

Recon
The importance of these ships has already been discussed, but cannot be overstated. Recons are your eyes. Try to defend without them, and you will suffer massive casualties even if you succeed in driving the enemy back. Try to attack without them, and you'll end up moving your ships around aimlessly, trying to counter every new defensive hurdle as you discover it and watching the death toll mount as your attack force melts away.

Recons can see farther than many ships can travel in a single turn, are as fast as a destroyer, and have the biggest possible fuel load. Hressan and Xritra recons carry missiles, while the Fleet's have best missile defenses.

The presence of a recon in orbit of an enemy planet will allow you to get a look at the surface.

Sub-ether
In my opinion, this is kind of a stupid-sounding name, but the concept of a using a warp field as a cloaking device, which is pretty much how the manual describes it, is interesting. I don't see the stealth aspect of sub-ether ships being very useful against the game's AI, but the Cephian Silent Dagger ought to be a transport's worst nightmare in on-line games. The Fleet's Kepper Jack is pretty clearly meant as a stealth recon.
 

Dickie

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A little late to this discussion (but have just read the previous pages to get up to speed) but thought it was worth offering the fact that in modern parlance cruiser, destroyer, frigate etc is almost meaningless as there is no recognised definition of any of the terms. For example, the Royal Navy designates AAW warships as 'destroyers' and ASW warships as 'frigates' however our own intelligence branch when reporting on foreign vessels defines a frigate as a warship armed and equipped to counter 2 types of threat (e.g ASuW and ASW) and a destroyer as being armed and equipped to counter 3 types (e.g ASuW, ASW and AAW).

This means a Type 23 is a frigate by the RN's definition as they are ASW focused ships and they are also capable of ASuW operations so fit in with the intelligence branch definition. A Type 45 however, is a 'destroyer' according to the RN as an AAW focused platform, but her only real armament is AAW with no ASuW or ASW capability so doesn't even rate as a frigate according to the RN's own intelligence branch! This is then at odd's with the definition used by Janes which then brings size into the equation, meaning that at 155m long a Type 45 could also (just) be considered a cruiser.

As far as the term 'citadel' goes, in the modern RN this is the part of a warship which offers protection from a CBRN environment by a combination of airlocks and being slightly pressurised above ambient pressure to prevent any contaminants from entering. Generally it encompasses all the living and working areas on board to enable a warship to continue operating in a CBRN environment with as little impact as possible. Not sure what other navies refer to similar systems as?

Regarding Jutland, the majority of the problems for the British were in the poor leadership in the RN both at the time and in the years leading up to the conflict. Jackie Fisher pushed for the procurement of the flawed battlecruisers as a borderline vanity project, the RN then turned down an advanced fire control system which would have enabled them to accurately use their bigger guns effectively near their maximum range and outside the range a which German gunnery was effective and instead insisted on using a less effective system designed by a junior gunnery officer who had the support of the Admiralty. This was then compounded by Beatty's poor leadership of the battlecruiser squadron. He may not have instigated it, but he certainly didn't stop the notion within the battlecruiser crews at the time that they were the 'cavalry of the sea', obsessed with maneuvering at speed to close with the enemy and utilising rate of fire alone to overwhelm them. This obsession with rate of fire led to the stowage of cordite along passageways and leaving magazines open, all to allow the faster transfer of ammunition to support the rate of fire. There are also reports that a further obsession with superficial ship's husbandry led to hatches being so polished that they were no longer watertight. During the battle itself, as Beatty closed with the German fleet the lack of any gunnery training for accuracy rather than speed led to his squadron being unable to effectively engage the Germans swiftly followed by the explosion of his ships (and the deaths of his sailors) due to the poor explosives safety onboard.
 

Urwumpe

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There is a similar term in modern German shipbuilding: "Insel"or island, in the sense of having critical systems in multiple separate "islands", so that destruction of one island does not result in complete loss of the systems, like having radars, defensive weapons and machines in one place. But that also assumes that ships are practically unarmoured compared to the cruise missiles that attack them.
 

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I think the modern design assumption is that there is very little any kind of armour will do against a C802, Styx or whatever so you might as well sacrifice it and keep the speed.

As an aside, thanks to this thread I've also discovered World of Warships... :cheers:
 

Urwumpe

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I think the modern design assumption is that there is very little any kind of armour will do against a C802, Styx or whatever so you might as well sacrifice it and keep the speed.

As an aside, thanks to this thread I've also discovered World of Warships... :cheers:

Well, you could do something - but why? If a Klub missile strikes you at Mach 3, there is very little that would stop it, even if you managed to destroy it with a CIWS, it is still dangerous. Such a missile is as fast and as heavy as a 16 inch projectile of a Iowa and guided! And there are bigger missiles around.

It would be a futile fight, considering that those missile are also aiming themselves in terminal flight.
 

TMac3000

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A little late to this discussion (but have just read the previous pages to get up to speed) but thought it was worth offering the fact that in modern parlance cruiser, destroyer, frigate etc is almost meaningless as there is no recognised definition of any of the terms. For example, the Royal Navy designates AAW warships as 'destroyers' and ASW warships as 'frigates' however our own intelligence branch when reporting on foreign vessels defines a frigate as a warship armed and equipped to counter 2 types of threat (e.g ASuW and ASW) and a destroyer as being armed and equipped to counter 3 types (e.g ASuW, ASW and AAW).

This means a Type 23 is a frigate by the RN's definition as they are ASW focused ships and they are also capable of ASuW operations so fit in with the intelligence branch definition. A Type 45 however, is a 'destroyer' according to the RN as an AAW focused platform, but her only real armament is AAW with no ASuW or ASW capability so doesn't even rate as a frigate according to the RN's own intelligence branch! This is then at odd's with the definition used by Janes which then brings size into the equation, meaning that at 155m long a Type 45 could also (just) be considered a cruiser.

As far as the term 'citadel' goes, in the modern RN this is the part of a warship which offers protection from a CBRN environment by a combination of airlocks and being slightly pressurised above ambient pressure to prevent any contaminants from entering. Generally it encompasses all the living and working areas on board to enable a warship to continue operating in a CBRN environment with as little impact as possible. Not sure what other navies refer to similar systems as?

Regarding Jutland, the majority of the problems for the British were in the poor leadership in the RN both at the time and in the years leading up to the conflict. Jackie Fisher pushed for the procurement of the flawed battlecruisers as a borderline vanity project, the RN then turned down an advanced fire control system which would have enabled them to accurately use their bigger guns effectively near their maximum range and outside the range a which German gunnery was effective and instead insisted on using a less effective system designed by a junior gunnery officer who had the support of the Admiralty. This was then compounded by Beatty's poor leadership of the battlecruiser squadron. He may not have instigated it, but he certainly didn't stop the notion within the battlecruiser crews at the time that they were the 'cavalry of the sea', obsessed with maneuvering at speed to close with the enemy and utilising rate of fire alone to overwhelm them. This obsession with rate of fire led to the stowage of cordite along passageways and leaving magazines open, all to allow the faster transfer of ammunition to support the rate of fire. There are also reports that a further obsession with superficial ship's husbandry led to hatches being so polished that they were no longer watertight. During the battle itself, as Beatty closed with the German fleet the lack of any gunnery training for accuracy rather than speed led to his squadron being unable to effectively engage the Germans swiftly followed by the explosion of his ships (and the deaths of his sailors) due to the poor explosives safety onboard.

Like I said, the British forgot the lesson they got clobbered with in 1776-83: too much flash, not enough bang.

---------- Post added at 06:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 PM ----------

Well, you could do something - but why? If a Klub missile strikes you at Mach 3, there is very little that would stop it, even if you managed to destroy it with a CIWS, it is still dangerous. Such a missile is as fast and as heavy as a 16 inch projectile of a Iowa and guided! And there are bigger missiles around.

It would be a futile fight, considering that those missile are also aiming themselves in terminal flight.

If it's going that fast, it usually has a small warhead (like a HARM). If it doesn't, your only hope is to shoot the :censored:er carrying it before it gets launched. That's relatively easy if it's a bomber, not so much if it's a sub or a ship.

And such missiles are designed to get through the AEGIS system. If they can do that...then yeah, you are pretty much screwed.
 
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