Space agency "multiplayer" minigame

[Xantcha]

The idea is to make simple somewhat abstract cooperation/concurention community game. Before considering if it is worth developing, I'd like to know if this sounds interesting to anyone.

Each player starts his personal space agency subdivision. As a director he can build facilities, produce space station components, train crew, and start missions.

Missions:
Too keep it simple, missions would be focused on space station with occasional, satellite or probe launch.

Space stations:
Stations consist of three main (non-structural) elemets: crew, energy and lab. manned, powered labs produce reseacrh points (not accumulated). After several turns, crew must be replaced.

Facilities:
Space station building complex - three types, each can build certain space station component
Crew training complex - "builds" crew for space station labs
Launch complex - limits number of launches per turn.

Funding:
Every turn a player is given funds from his govt. He also is given a mission which he have to complete in certain time period. Failure to complete it will result in a cut of funding.

Also, all the players a given a common goal. z.b. a space station at certain inclination with a crew of 4 should be built in next 2 turns. It doesn't matter which player will complete the goal (of course it can be a joint proect). If no one completes it - everyone will suffer in funding, proportionally to the size of his/her agency.

Plus, every turn a random number of optional missions will be available - either commercial (satellites and space tourists) or government projects (satellites, probe launches).
Every player could bid for an optional project - a player with lowest bid (for commercial) or random player (for govt project) will recieve the task and money (should he complete the task)

Reseacrh points gained from space stations could be "sold" same way - every turn a certain demand for space researches will be formed.
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Hope this sketch can give an idea of what I'm thinking. Of course, it contains no numbers to make actual rules - this needs balancing. Also to make idea clearer and simpler to realize - it is very stripped down project. Adding more detals (making different launch vehicles, or adding consumables to space stations etc) could be done easily. That is if projects looks interesting enough to try and make it.

 

[Urwumpe]

Well, why don't we attempt realizing this concept in DG-Tech? The station modules could be hauled with a Shuttle-A or XR5, crew transfered with a XR1. UMMU could be used for crew transfer.

In theory, some of the performance statistics could be recorded for a flight by a plug-in, but a human referee would be required anyway.

I can offer making some simple DLLs for the project, if it is open-source and somebody skilled makes the meshes.

Also, some special vessels might make sense:
- Cargo ship, transporting parts and modules from more distant coastal factories. could be an AI job while another mission takes place.
- Jet trainers.
- SAR VTOLs.

 

[Xantcha]

Thanks for interest , Urwumpe.

About technical realisation:
1. Management interface - all the building, bidding, and mission organization part
2. Scenario generation - creates scenario for each mission organized this turn
3. Mission state checker - to check if goal was accomplished, may be assigns some achievemnts points depending on performance
4. Updater - sends information about completed missions
0. New turn generator

It can be done fully automatized (long development) and fully manauly (tough organization).

Ideally, all the elemnts could be automatized by a single orbiter plugin. And turn update could be automatized tool run by referee (or a server app should a project require one : - )

But that's too much work for project with unknow quality, I guess a mixed solution could be used, something like this:

1 - supported by forum. Players PM orders to referee, talk with each other about cooperatin projects, p[en status of each player (owned facilities and space stations, offered contracts) is updated after as a top post. After referee's approval payers could send him results of mission.
2 - external GUI tool, genrates scenario file.
3 - an orbiter plugin, saves crypted file as output.
4 - players have to manuly submit mission outputs to referee.

If it turns out any good, than some automatisation could be implemented

 

[Urwumpe]

I would say, a Play by email approach would be better for the forum:

Somebody creates the initial scenario with all start conditions and mails it to the first to fly. After the mission is done, he saves the mission and mails it again to the next player or the program director. Next turn. Each player does only one "turn". This means, quick saving the mission must be stable as well as loading. One turn can be one part of the mission, or one full mission.

Cheating would be allowed, but discouraged. it is about fun, not good savegame editing.

Also, why not have a strong human component. I think UMMU will be a great aid for such a scenario. Let's say, each player who wants to take part has his own UMMU astronaut in the scenario. This means, transferring from a training facility to a spaceport will mean one player can't launch in the next turn as somebody else does the next turn. How a turn looks like and how long it should be, depends on what the people agree on.

Organizing the turns will be the major problem to solve for a team. When player astronaut A is better in docking, wouldn't it be smarter to let player B do the transfer flight of a module to the spaceport?

Competition would also work: Lets have two space agencies work against each other, with the next turn being done by the other VSA. Winner is, who manages to achieve some designated goals faster.

thats technically more simple, and does not require a large organization overhead in form of software.

 

[Xantcha]

Sounds reasonable, and uhm.. "realisable"
And UMMU - that's interesting too - passign a turn to pilot that's supposed to bring you osmewhere without crashing.. Sounds fun

Try to think about goals and rules a bit more.

Also, anyone who is interesting in participating, please post

 

[Urwumpe]

Well, anyway, I suggest DG-Tech instead of any realistic add-on. Realistic stuff is very difficult and will make the missions very complex.

Also, with DG-Tech, we can use abstract futuristic vehicles and buildings, which only vaguely look like todays - which can make stuff simpler. Instead of ships for transporting a huge station module, we could make a ground effect cargo vehicle.

 

[Master of Blades]

Funny, i just posted something very similar D:

http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?p=20663#post20663

 

[Xantcha]

2 Master of Blades: thats rather encouraging - it looks like definetely I am not the only who like this idea.
2 Urwumpe: I think futuristic design is fine. I do not try to make it "realistic" space agency game anyway.

Okay, current prototype of game-flow looks like this:

Each turns lasts predefined sim time, say a week (or couple of months if Mars is an option).
When declaring a mission for current turn player specifies start time and finish time for mission, if one player starts several missions they have to be done in separate time. To run mission, player launches this turn's scenario, wait till the mission start time, completes the mission (or missions) then waits till scenario reaches end time, saves file and sends it to refree (along with mission results description) Of course this is not necessary to do in a single run - quicksaving is pretty legal especially if a plenty of action is done during one turn. A simple utility that pauses game at certain MJD could be made to make that process easier.

Data sharing.
At end of turn players send mision results and last saved scenarios (at endofturn - time) to referee. Then referee compiles scenario for new turn, then adds to it new vessels that were built (or UMMUs for freshly trained astronauts) and posts that file.

Above is example of data flow for 5 players and one joint-mission for two players. (a docking between vessels of different space agancies f.ex/) White circles is startscenario, grey - scenario state after mission is done.
A - is starе mission scenario (all players start they're missions from same scenario). 1-5 end state for 1st mission of each player. For players 4 and 5 this could be launching they're vessels into inclination they have decided upon before.
B - joint mission scenario - compiled from states 4 and 5. Someone either player 4 or 5 completes that mission.
C - end state of joint missions. players 4 and 5 continue from here
D - new turn scenario, compiled by refree

Very simple concept, and still i feel it that it difficult to explain it clearly :-/ Now try to flesh-out some actual rules with numbers in them.

 

[Star explorer]

you know there was actullay a computer game like that once it was called BUZZ Aldrins race to space it is now abandonware so you can download it for free its old but it will run on xp just run it in compatibility mode with windows 95. but other than that your idea is good idea i bet it be fun

 

[dutchpirate]

I'm getting a sense of the structure and it sounds really intriguing. Urwumpe, what is DG-Tech that you have reffered to?

 

[Master of Blades]

DG-Tech (i think) is pirdy much Orbiter-vessels, the DeltaGlider, the Dragonfly, Shuttle A etc...

 

[Xantcha]

A bit more detailed thoughts on game-process:

Player starts game with some amount of credits (say 100), although that depends on players' total number.
And then begins prestart phase - еhose credits can immediately spend on buying ships and facilities.

Facilities are not built but bought - this means that complexes already exist, and instead of vuilding new complex near players base, that player chooses one of alredy existing. Facilities differ by type (launch complexes, crew training, space station building - for energy, crew or lab modules). They also differ by location and price. Should two players decide to buy same facility they can bid on and highest bid wins (or they can choose any other way for that, important point is - no cooperation owning for facilities).

After buying facility, a space ship and transport ship can be bought. They have to be placed on one of player's facilities (for spacecraft onle launch complexes are legal)
After a player is done with spending his initial funds, he is given one free turn to have chance for using training centers or space station building complexes.


When all players finish prestart phase, game begins and 1st turn starts.
Players recieve this turn's scenarios (where they an see they'r building and crafts as well as freshly trained crew and new space station blocks and that begins new turn. At start of each turn referee posts information on thi turns state - player's income, production, demand, reasearch and taks information:

Each player, who doesn't have active task (all players at start of game) is given one - his income will depend his succes in sompleting that task.
Same logic for comon goals - If no common goal exist, new common goal is declared.
Players turnly income depends on next things - his performance in comlpeteing tasks, succes of all players in achieving common goal, his research points and contracts.

There are several types of research ( f.ex: geo/meteo, bio/med, phys/chemistry) and for each space lab player controls, he gets research points in coreesponfing type. Number of reserch points depends on quality of lab. Every turn a demand number for each type of research is calculated by referee (randomly, but depending on previous value). That number in credits is divided betweeen players proporttional to research points they have.

There is another way of getting credits: every two turns referee gives list of contracts (commercial sattelite launchches, space tourist, military ops, probe launches). Thos contracts are for those turn and any player can take it to complete.


During the turn itself, just as in prestart phase players can buy ships, transports and facilities and build space station blocks/ train crew. (But unlike prestart phase players are limited in that choosen item will be bought on next turn).
Most importantly, of course, players can plan missions - for contracts they have taken or they own with goal to complete taks, help achivieng common goal (or just for should fincancial situation allow it).
After orders and mission declaration are given to referee, players can proceed to executing missions. After completeion they send missions results and endofturn-time snapshot scenarios.

Referee then, compiles new start scenario, processes orders. And genrates new turn data.
_____________________________________________

have some questions about details and realisation:

How do you think, what spaceships should be used? And what about transport plane? Is moon an option, i mean should lunar bases be in the facilities buylist?

What can be used as space station elements? how many types of them should be enough to keep game interesting and not too complicated?

How much real time should be given for a turn organization,Is week optimal?
And what about simtime for a single turn? Week? Month? 3 Months?

Also - very early sketch for prices:
Starting funds: 100
Starting income: 15

Buy spaceship: 30
Buy transport ship: 10
Buy facility: 20

Build space station block: 5
Train crew: 2
Use transport: 3
Launch spaceship: 10

average price for sattelite launch: 20
average number of satelite contracts: number of players/2

average income increment for succesfull task: 2
average income increment for common goal completion: 5

average demand for single research branch: ???

 

[Urwumpe]

Just a quick brain dump:

I think merging multiple scenarios into one again will become hard, as you need to propagate all scenarios to the MJD of the latest scenario.

Building new facilities should take place as far inside the simulation as possible. This way, we don't need to manage this outside.

Contracts should be generated before the game, and only get filled up to keep a constant number of contracts available.

The activities between turns could also be used for including new game files.

I think OMP could improve this idea a lot, a MMORPG like server based on OrbiterNG could be better...

We would have MANY situations, where we rely on the good will of the players... so lets keep it like that... trust the players. Cheating will get detected quickly.

If we make DLLs for a building, a telephone system would be useful.

My suggestions as start buildings:
- Construction yard - sells facilities
- Hotel - Starting point for players.
- Administration - organize missions and contracts. Management.
- Hangar.

 

[Xantcha]

Well, since, manually updating scenarios is too much trouble,
then may be I should consider client-plugin connecting to server of some sorts. I'm not talking about realtime-vessel positions updates - thats what OMP is about, not this project. I mean exchanging only "management-level" information: active contracts, facilities available for purchase, space stations, inaсtive vessel position. May be active-vessels data can be available as well - just to see that another player is completing mission at the same time and to know where roughly on/above earth he is.
Since plugin will have full information on game-state, all management orders could be processed with it.
Referee then will do only *interesting* stuff like adding contracts, setting demand values etc.

2 Urwumpe: You have mentioned having an UMMU avatar of player, and I'm still trying to find a way of using a 1st person perspective, so I'm intersting in listening to your "version of the story". I'd like to see your vision a little more detailed.
How OMP can be applied to concept - could it be used to make development easier? Also what is it's status, Which version to use? And what is telephone system, you mentioned?

 

[Urwumpe]

The idea is just to make the player be at a location and having the player to travel to the right location. Let's say, somebody ruined the de-orbit and crash landed somewhere in Africa. Before somebody comes around and picks him up, he would not be available for the next mission...

And what is telephone system, you mentioned?

Just a way to deal with contracts, building facilities, etc in-game, without having the player avatar to travel to a new location or switch focus.

Switching focus should be recorded by a plug-in and be used for evaluating the mission - actions done with the avatar of somebody else, would get scored for this one.

 

[Star explorer]

i think you should totally develop the game

 

[Xantcha]

2 Urwumpe: Thanks for explanation, finally i get it Should all missions be manned then? $)

Some thoughts on time acceleration:
I have this idea: in management mode time is synched with server simtime, timewarp is only allowed when executing a mission:
z.b: player space station resupply mission, he puts DG-454 in orbit, accelerates till apoapsis, tweaks orbit a little, then accelerates again and after 40hour chase he gets to to space station. Then he docks and completes mission. Just like in single player.
But after he completes mission, client-plugin sets date again at server simtime. Vessel states are updated as well, but DG-454 is nowhere to be seen (except in player's ship list, where it will have "on a mission" status. And when simtime reaches time at which mission was completed, DG-454 will materialize.

Of course, there is a conflict with 1st person idea - while a craft is in "on a mission" limbo, where should player's avatar be? One possible solution can be saving vessel's state during mision execution, then "re-playing" it. That way, player will still percievу world as a character.

Another way is constant synchronization when clintside simtime is roughly the same as servers's simtime. That way one can perform TLI, quit, then open orbiter after few days, and start lunar orbit insertion.
That's one hardcore mission planning - among other tasks it will require making encounter exactle when player will have a free time. Also this apporach have a technical problem - ships trajectory had to be calculated on server side someway.

Speaking of time - if game data will be updated automatically and on request - then a concept of "turns" can be obsolete - time periods can be used instead,

2 Star explorer: i'm too thinking that this idea is worth realizing. How much time could it take to develop? Who knows. I have very limited expirience with network apps, as well as in organizing community projects. Anyway, I'll try to use what I can. All I can hope is that this idea will look apealing to enough people to make it real thing - it's is not one man project, even conceptually

P.S. I have reread my posts in that thread and was horrified - lots of typos, weird sentences... I'll better try to write cleaner next time.
P.P.S. Spend like 5 minutes clearing this post. oh my, may be i should get english spellchecker :-/

 

[Star explorer]

you forgot to put a space between i'll and try

 

[Xantcha]

Okay, started working on module prototype.

What UMMu-compatible vessel can be a good choice for spacestation-building transport? And wich craft to utilze for Earth transportation?

 

[Urwumpe]

Vanguard XR5 is great for space station building.