Iron Hill Project Thread

[TMac3000]

I must say, you have a good point about the Arrows. We've been sending them to the moon for upgrades and maintenance--and that's okay!--but using them for actual lunar missions is a bit like driving a 747 to work. It's straight overkill. The Vanguard is perfect for such tasks.

Looking at the possible locations, Shackleton Crater seems good, but due to UMMU issues I'd like to avoid the poles if at all possible. You should have seen Felipi trying to assemble the Iron Hill complex--he was just about tearing his hair out:lol:

I'd say a low-latitude location like Grimaldi or Oceanus Procellarum:thumbup: Also, a radio telescope on the far side would be terrific as a separate project--or, we could put a Cheyenne-class station in orbit around the moon and decommission Luna-01B.

After Odyssey returns in March, I'll announce the founding of Real Time Inc., and create a social group for all projects and discussions related to the company. I'd like to stick with the IHP universe for all future projects, and just keep it continuously expanding.

About the states: you can select the most important of them and release a package in OH.

Since each of us post different states at different times, we could each just post/update to our respective accounts on OH whenever necessary. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be much more efficient then what we've been doing so far

 

[sorindafabico]

due to UMMU issues I'd like to avoid the poles if at all possible

Yes. I landed at Callisto's north pole once. Lightning is awful even in summer. Due to safety reasons (and orbiter limitations concerning terrain), the best place would be a large plain. I like the idea of a base in a far side maria, but the area isn't protected by the Earth's magnetic field and hasn't many plains. Procellarum is a great option. We can also try to put a radiotelescope in L2 if we choose near side.

we could put a Cheyenne-class station in orbit around the moon and decommission Luna-01B.

An orbital station (not so big as Luna) would be very useful as outpost. We could use a lunar lander/shuttle when a XR5 lunar landing is not fully needed. An Earth-Moon-Earth trip consumes almost the delta-v budget of the Vanguard and a XR2 with CHM doesn't have fuel to a round trip if it lands on the Moon (I don't know about XR1).


As the Apollo did it last century and Brighton Beach is already built, we don't need to hurry about touching the suface. We can project and start building the station even before choosing the base site. We can make some custom IMS modules (just a CFG file and a mesh needed) and use others from the IMS base package.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

I have an off-topic question:

What do you think about an Iron Hill style lunar program? Something to simulate the building of lunar infraestructure (the building of Brighton Beach, maybe?), with mining/scientific facilities. We can run as a "paralel universe" project (specially if it involves BB building) or use the same universe of Iron Hill (if we decide to build other base(s)).

I don't want to crowd O-F with every kind of Iron Hill copies, but a real time lunar program would be cool because of the Moon's proximity.

Actually Ive been thinking about something similar. I read the PDF on Langrangian point fuel depots that was posted on wikipedia (can find it if you want), and I am now considering a real-time station project located at L2, to be built using IMS. I plan on posting the SCN at regular intervals, & interfacing with other players, so that anyone planning a realistic interplanetary mission can dock & prepare there. Consider this:

Deltav from the Earth-Moon L2 to Mars is ~1.0 kps!

Sound interesting?



BTW Tmac, thanks for the meshes, Ill work on them when I can. When is our launch window opening up?

 

[TMac3000]

All of this sounds great
So, when should we start? Like you said, there's no hurry. I can start assembling the modules today (though I haven't found a way to get SSBB modules into an XR cargo bay), but I'd like to begin the actual missions in September/October of 2013, after the Drake has departed for Jupiter.

---------- Post added at 09:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 AM ----------

Actually Ive been thinking about something similar. I read the PDF on Langrangian point fuel depots that was posted on wikipedia (can find it if you want), and I am now considering a real-time station project located at L5, to be built using IMS. I plan on posting the SCN at regular intervals, & interfacing with other players, so that anyone planning a realistic interplanetary mission can dock & prepare there. Consider this:

Deltav from the Earth-Moon L5 to Mars is ~1.0 kps!

Sound interesting?



BTW Tmac, thanks for the meshes, Ill work on them when I can. When is our launch window opening up?

The 19th (one week from today) So I'll have to poke SolarLiner with a stick to make sure he gets home in time:lol:

 

[SolarLiner]

Poked correctly :lol:
I will start the return in just 5-10 minutes for now, so ...
You ready ?

---------- Post added at 03:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

I think I have found the problem of the CTD: SAS ...
Bad bad news, guys, that I can't handle it ... If I remove the two, the scenario works, but when I am adding one of the two, it CTD at 100s sim ...

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Poked correctly :lol:
I will start the return in just 5-10 minutes for now, so ...
You ready ?

---------- Post added at 03:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

I think I have found the problem of the CTD: SAS ...
Bad bad news, guys, that I can't handle it ... If I remove the two, the scenario works, but when I am adding one of the two, it CTD at 100s sim ...

You are aware that SAS is in "Orbiter hell", right now, due to a variable overload, like what happens when you try to leave sol system right? If thats the issue, we might as well just delete it, then create a new one.

 

[SolarLiner]

I had to delete temporarly the SASs to load correctly ...
Anyway, everything works now, so I am live !

 

[sorindafabico]

Actually Ive been thinking about something similar. I read the PDF on Langrangian point fuel depots that was posted on wikipedia (can find it if you want), and I am now considering a real-time station project located at L5, to be built using IMS. I plan on posting the SCN at regular intervals, & interfacing with other players, so that anyone planning a realistic interplanetary mission can dock & prepare there. Consider this:

Deltav from the Earth-Moon L5 to Mars is ~1.0 kps!

Sound interesting?



BTW Tmac, thanks for the meshes, Ill work on them when I can. When is our launch window opening up?

L5 or L2?

The problem with lagrangian points is the propagation when you update the simulation time with Scenario Editor. Orbiter puts your vessel at a point it would be if the secondary body didn't exist. We would need a REAL realtime sim, not an interruped time sim like IHP. =/

I'm not ruling out the very cool idea of a lagrangian station, but we would need to change some procedures.

---------- Post added at 05:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 PM ----------

All of this sounds great
So, when should we start? Like you said, there's no hurry. I can start assembling the modules today (though I haven't found a way to get SSBB modules into an XR cargo bay), but I'd like to begin the actual missions in September/October of 2013, after the Drake has departed for Jupiter.

Well, we can start making the concept/project of the orbital station today. I think a permanent crew capacity of 2/3 UMMUs is sufficient, and we can allow a greater crew capacity for short periods. A UCGO cargo module is a must have.

Once the station project is done, we can make the modules, launch them and assemble the station in low lunar orbit. There are sufficient crew on Earth to assemble the station, and we will have more people after the arriving of A-crew.

The SSBB doesn't have native XR bay compatibility, but you can change this with a few lines in the CFG files. However, it would be better to use our own CFG files, even if we use SSBB meshes. It would be better to design our own station meshes, but I will not insist about this because I am an awful modeler :rofl: .

There's an important issue if we will use IMS to build the station: IMS is great for the task, but it isn't D3D9 compatible (anyone else using graphics clients in IHP?). So, we have to choose between IMS and graphics clients. If we choose graphics clients, I can code the module(s) which will be UMMU and UCGO capable. If we choose IMS, it's just a matter of making/choosing the meshes and writing the CFG files.

 

[hedzup456]

Regarding the rapidly accumulating number of IHP states, I'm planning to go through and delete a bunch of the older ones from the forum. I'd like to set up a more efficient method of keeping the project up to date. OrbitHangar comes to mind, but I'd have to set up a whole new account and give everyone the password--I'm not sure the mods would take that very well.

Could be a little late, but what about Dropbox?
~Hedz

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

L5 or L2?

The problem with lagrangian points is the propagation when you update the simulation time with Scenario Editor. Orbiter puts your vessel at a point it would be if the secondary body didn't exist. We would need a REAL realtime sim, not an interruped time sim like IHP. =/

I'm not ruling out the very cool idea of a lagrangian station, but we would need to change some procedures.

---------- Post added at 05:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 PM ----------



Well, we can start making the concept/project of the orbital station today. I think a permanent crew capacity of 2/3 UMMUs is sufficient, and we can allow a greater crew capacity for short periods. A UCGO cargo module is a must have.

Once the station project is done, we can make the modules, launch them and assemble the station in low lunar orbit. There are sufficient crew on Earth to assemble the station, and we will have more people after the arriving of A-crew.

The SSBB doesn't have native XR bay compatibility, but you can change this with a few lines in the CFG files. However, it would be better to use our own CFG files, even if we use SSBB meshes. It would be better to design our own station meshes, but I will not insist about this because I am an awful modeler :rofl: .

There's an important issue if we will use IMS to build the station: IMS is great for the task, but it isn't D3D9 compatible (anyone else using graphics clients in IHP?). So, we have to choose between IMS and graphics clients. If we choose graphics clients, I can code the module(s) which will be UMMU and UCGO capable. If we choose IMS, it's just a matter of making/choosing the meshes and writing the CFG files.

Sorry, that should be L2, got my langrange points mixed up there. I am definitely planning on using IMS, no offense to anyones coding skills, but I just cant see them matching the depth that IMS has in terms of realism.

I dont mind if anyone wants to help, but I was hoping to do this as an independent project from the IHP, focused on realistic spacecraft designs. I dont know what I can do about that sim update problem, but maybe I can find a way of forcing orbiter_ng to run to a particular time and date.

Any suggestions for the name of the station?

 

[TMac3000]

Any suggestions for the name of the station?

I'm thinking Fargo Station

 

[sorindafabico]

Sorry, that should be L2, got my langrange points mixed up there. I am definitely planning on using IMS, no offense to anyones coding skills, but I just cant see them matching the depth that IMS has in terms of realism.

I dont mind if anyone wants to help, but I was hoping to do this as an independent project from the IHP, focused on realistic spacecraft designs. I dont know what I can do about that sim update problem, but maybe I can find a way of forcing orbiter_ng to run to a particular time and date.

Any suggestions for the name of the station?

Well, being a separate project, we can use time acceleration rather than ScnEditor updates. I like the idea - the lagrangian points are defiant places to reach in Orbiter.

I prefer to use IMS too for realism - it's just a matter of using low-poly meshes if we are to build a huge station.

 

[SolarLiner]

Shame that I had an internet cut ...
But, here it is:

 

[TMac3000]

How did you fix the 100 sec CTD? Both SAS's are still present in the file (I'm getting that error now btw)

 

[sorindafabico]

Here's a not to scale initial diagram for the lunar orbital station idea (not the lagrangian idea). It can be done easily with IMS or C++ (the UCGO container must be made in C++, however).

- Two docking ports, one for ships from Earth, one for ships from the Moon.
- Command module - the main systems and habitat for one astronaut.
- Service module - support systems and habitat for two astronauts.
- Berthing mechanism - it can be useful, specially with a URMS attached to the station.
- UCGO cargo module to store UCGO cargo.
- Z1/CMG used instead of RCS to keep attitude. See the [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=5351"]CMG 2.0 addon by poscik[/ame].
- Solar panels
- Radiators - position optimized if we use a polar orbit.


What do you think?

---------- Post added at 07:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:29 PM ----------

Oh, I made a mistake: it's better to put the two radiators in nadir, instead of one in nadir and one in Zenith. So, both will recieve the lowest possible amounts of sunlight.

 

[TMac3000]

It looks pretty interesting:thumbup:
Can you build a partial mockup of it using SSBB or IMS, and post it here?

 

[sorindafabico]

It looks pretty interesting:thumbup:
Can you build a partial mockup of it using SSBB or IMS, and post it here?

Some IMS modules with little CFG mod for docking ports plus Z1/CMG. It's lacking the UCGO cargo module on command module nadir, of course.

Z1 seems to have some impact on FPS, so we could try to use CMG alone or make a less poly Z1. CMG is a must have.

Custom meshes would be very cool.

 

[TMac3000]

This looks very, very cool:thumbup:
I'm not a coder, but I'd love to help with this in some way

 

[sorindafabico]

I've managed to get the CMG working without Z1! The FPS had a great relief!

But we'll have to think in a way to place it without letting the thing ugly...

---------- Post added at 11:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 PM ----------

This looks very, very cool:thumbup:
I'm not a coder, but I'd love to help with this in some way

Do you mind to do some meshes? The first model would be the UCGO cargo module.

 

[TMac3000]

Sure! I'll have to reinstall Blender tho...