News Population hitting 7 billion

[Pyromaniac605]

But truthful (in my opinion ).

If you ask me, it really depends on the situation, they could have had their first child and then, when wanting a second, ended up with triplets+.
But if they didn't have any triplets or more, they could just want to have lots of kids, on the other hand, if they don't want lots of kids, I'd have to agree with you, it's there fault for not using protection. :dry:

 

[N_Molson]

While ten years old, this map is still interesting (anyways it takes a lot of time to gather & compute data from all over the world) :

 

[RisingFury]

There's plenty of women in Australia having large families (3, 4 or more - this forum dedicated to the topic is an example - "Who is pregnant with child #4, 5, 6 or more?" ). These are relatively well-off and (supposedly) educated women. (Two of my relatives have 4 children each.) In their case it is just selfishness as they don't have the excuse of lack of contraception or education that people in developing countries have.

What? They can't have 4 kids if they want to?

 

[T.Neo]

What? They can't have 4 kids if they want to?

I don't think it's a matter of whether people should or should not have four children, but; what if everyone on the planet had four children, and those four children each had four children, and each of those four children had four children, and each of those four children had four children...

I am sorry, I am just one of those people who does not want entire landmasses of their planet converted to cities and farms with everthing else destroyed, to support tens of billions of people that exist to just to exist.

It would be best to invest heavily into a moderately sized population; it might sound like a weird idea, but it is sure better than "Perform Ecocide, Imitate Archea".

I think Suzy's worry is more subjective than anything else though... birth rates in Aus as a whole are quite low, not matching up to Africa for example:

(Birth rates also correlate more or less directly with things like literacy and poverty rates.)

But seriously... I can't understand the desire to have as many children as possible. Maybe it is a psychological 'hook', but I'd rather invest as much effort and time into my hypothetical children as I could, rather than churn out babies as if they were coming off a production line.

 

[SiberianTiger]

While ten years old, this map is still interesting (anyways it takes a lot of time to gather & compute data from all over the world) :

Here's an estimation for growth rate for 2011 on per country basis:

 

[SiberianTiger]

Looking at the map above, I think, if I had been an ET explorer, I'd guess that human reproduction function directly depends on mean temperature.

 

[Face]

I have 3 kids. Some people here (in Austria) laugh at me for having "that many" children, because I'm either:

• stupid,
• too dumb to use contraception or
• lazy and want to live on welfare.

OTOH, according to statistics like posted before - and by personal experience, too - the population growth in Austria is close to zero, it would even become negative if it weren't for immigrants (you know, those bad, bad, lazy mass-kid-producers).
Of course, almost all people in my country moan about over-aging and the consequences for our pension scheme. Still they moan about having many kids.

You know what? People talk much. They are all oh so clever. Especially if they analyze the life of other peoples and what they should do and what not. Even more so, if they do not have the slightest clue about what it means to have children, or what it means to be not able to have children, for that matter.

But this is human nature. Nobody can really change that, just suppress it for a limited time. And in my opinion, this is the reason why we - as in "the whole mankind" - were, are, and will be subject to simple control-loop rules. One of them is: add energy to a closed ecosystem, and you will see growth. Remove that energy, and you will see decline.
The sad part is, that the later means shrinking world population - in one way or the other - if it is not possible to sustain our current global energy consumption. It looks like this is the case, and I really fear that it won't be a controlled shrinking, especially if I look at some of the radical opinions here.

IMHO, humility would help some to get a better view. So, if you think about mankind's faith and the way to go, remember:

• your opinion is not necessarily the universal truth
• you talk about people, not machines
• sweeping statements have a high probability of being wrong (and no, this is no sweeping statement )

my :2cents:

 

[Jarvitä]

There's plenty of women in Australia having large families (3, 4 or more - this forum dedicated to the topic is an example - "Who is pregnant with child #4, 5, 6 or more?" ). These are relatively well-off and (supposedly) educated women. (Two of my relatives have 4 children each.) In their case it is just selfishness as they don't have the excuse of lack of contraception or education that people in developing countries have.

Yeah, they should be sterilised and have their excess children taken away instead, right? :facepalm:

 

[T.Neo]

Yeah, they should be sterilised and have their excess children taken away instead, right?

I don't think anyone is suggesting any nonsense of that sort (though the stuff this guy has come up with comes close).

 

[Izack]

I have 3 kids. Some people here (in Austria) laugh at me for having "that many" children, because I'm either:

• stupid,
• too dumb to use contraception or
• lazy and want to live on welfare.

OTOH, according to statistics like posted before - and by personal experience, too - the population growth in Austria is close to zero, it would even become negative if it weren't for immigrants (you know, those bad, bad, lazy mass-kid-producers).
Of course, almost all people in my country moan about over-aging and the consequences for our pension scheme. Still they moan about having many kids.

My parents get the same crap from people. I'm the first of their four children. I remember one of the old neighbours (before we moved away partially to get away from such fools) who was simply astounded that Mother can put up with (and God forbid maybe even LOVE) four whole kids - AND a dog! (Of course, this is a fine lady who doesn't know what tree sap is and has a credit limit far higher than her brain functionality...)

 

[Suzy]

Yeah, they should be sterilised and have their excess children taken away instead, right? :facepalm:

Given some of the attitudes here (spare me from smug parents!), yes...

 

[T.Neo]

Given some of the attitudes here (spare me from smug parents!), yes...

I am no smug parent. But... what!? :dry:

(To be honest though: I had a look through that forum, and I found it pretty scary, almost like the women were 'addicted' to having children. But seriously, if they can parent those children, then there is no reason to take the children away from them. That is just wrong- and so is infringing on people's reproductive rights.)

We should rather work on encouraging people to uphold their reproductive responsibilities.

 

[RichWall]

Given some of the attitudes here (spare me from smug parents!), yes...

You could start a business, but I can't seem to think of a clever company name at the moment.

 

[Wally]

I think all this drama about overpopulation is nonesense. There is plenty of land on this planet for all of us and plenty of unused land for agriculture and farming. People aren't starving because of overpopulation, but because nobody (powerful enough) care for them.

 

[Codz]

Given some of the attitudes here (spare me from smug parents!), yes...

Thats easy to say from someone that doesn't have kids.

 

[Face]

Yeah, they should be sterilised and have their excess children taken away instead, right? :facepalm:

Given some of the attitudes here (spare me from smug parents!), yes...

Besides your comment seeming to be half tongue-in-cheek to me, it would be interesting to know what your definition for "smug parent" is. And what attitude it is that makes you want to do assault and battery as well as child abduction to other people.

Scratch that...
I was so bold to check your homepage and found the answers. You have quite some topics there, especially one on over-population. There is a part in there that makes you lose respect points in my book:

In this section are ideas for combating the overpopulation problem (which would applied to all countries equally), in order from the benign to the unpleasant. Some of these verge on the totalitarian, but with so many countries either unwilling or unable to regulate their populations, they could be seen as necessary measures! Otherwise, Nature will – sooner or later – deal with excess populations far more brutally.

Some people would – with tedious predictability – try to subvert these measures (a lot of people seem to lose all rationality when it comes to reproduction) so harsh punishments would be necessary to discourage this (e.g. compulsory sterilization, or even the death penalty as an extreme deterrent).

So it seems your statement wasn't all that tongue-in-cheek. You really believe this.

You stressed nature in your statement up there. Of course you are counter-acting human nature with your proposals, besides showing a total disrespect for human life. Don't you think nature will in the end "deal far more brutally" with whatever artificial "control system" you come up with?

Totally suppressing human nature will not work out. And if it works out, we aren't talking about humans anymore.

 

[Codz]

Besides your comment seeming to be half tongue-in-cheek to me, it would be interesting to know what your definition for "smug parent" is. And what attitude it is that makes you want to do assault and battery as well as child abduction to other people.

Scratch that...
I was so bold to check your homepage and found the answers. You have quite some topics there, especially one on over-population. There is a part in there that makes you lose respect points in my book:



So it seems your statement wasn't all that tongue-in-cheek. You really believe this.

You stressed nature in your statement up there. Of course you are counter-acting human nature with your proposals, besides showing a total disrespect for human life. Don't you think nature will in the end "deal far more brutally" with whatever artificial "control system" you come up with?

Totally suppressing human nature will not work out. And if it works out, we aren't talking about humans anymore.

Well said! :thumbup:


Alot of the stuff on that page sounds like something from Adolf Hitler...

 

[Face]

Alot of the stuff on that page sounds like something from Adolf Hitler...

While I agree that it goes into the direction, it is not quite there. You can't compare Suzy's extreme opinions with that mental's hate-speech. Also, way to invoke Godwin's .

Let us stay reasonable, even if the opinions heavily drift apart.

 

[SiberianTiger]

There's plenty of women in Australia having large families (3, 4 or more - this forum dedicated to the topic is an example - "Who is pregnant with child #4, 5, 6 or more?" ). These are relatively well-off and (supposedly) educated women. (Two of my relatives have 4 children each.) In their case it is just selfishness as they don't have the excuse of lack of contraception or education that people in developing countries have.

I'm not getting why do you regard that wrong in any way. And what is selfish about having many kids? Giving birth and upbringing even a single child is a labour, comparable to a feat. When you do that, the child becomes your focus of life. Anyone (regardless of gender) is capable of tearing life out of 4, 5, 6 or more people. But only women have a privilege to gift a life for this many human beings. And the more are of them, the more effort and even self-sacrifice is required to provide all the kids with necessary attention, care, and education. How come you think the process is easy or entertaining? What possible alternative doing you'd propose?

I have one child and, probably, will have one more in next few years. Given age of me and my spouse (we both are nearing 40), that's probably all the kids we can afford in our lifetime. I have a friend who, unlike me, hasn't left his hometown in the South of Russia in search for a greener pasture and better living conditions, but instead, married a girl who has already born him three toddlers. I tremble at thought of imagination of how five them strive living in a flat consisting of one bedroom and one kitchen, that is totaling 14 square metres of living area. Of course, she cannot afford her self-development or engagement in any full-time work. They are completely dependent on the husband's wage to support their living.

I think I couldn't possibly survive such life. I hold a great respect for him, and even more for his wife. They might not be doing all right, but they are doing that a hard way. Probably, when they get old, having a large pack of sons and daughters will pay back many times.

Would you also dare to call that woman selfish?

In addition, I don't believe you have such a great problem with overpopulation in Australia. If you did, first thing your government would do, should be shutting down immigration. But the stream of immigrants is keeping growing:

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/04fifty.htm

The Australian Bureau of Statistics estimated resident population (ERP) at March 2010 was 22.27 million people.


At 30 June 2009, of Australia's ERP of 22 million people one quarter were born overseas (5.8 million). This continues the historical trend of a high proportion of overseas-born among Australia's population. People born in the United Kingdom were the largest group of overseas-born residents (1.2 million persons at 30 June 2009), followed by those born in New Zealand (529 200), China (351 000), India (308 500) and Italy (219 300).

So I don't see how your argumentation can be regarded credible.

 

[jedidia]

And here I was thinking that Australia is the most sparsely settled continent in the whole world...? (excluding Antarctica, of course...)

Seriously, I canot consider a family with 4 kids to be anything more than "moderate size". Large starts at 6+ in my book, with huge starting somewhere at 10+ (and yes, I personally know examples of both).