Humor Random Comments Thread

[Urwumpe]

Commanding locomotive was pretty much brand spanking new. The locomotive was built in Siemens' Sacramento, CA facility within the last year, and the type has been in revenue service for only about 4 months. It's heavily computerized, so that's going to provide an immense amount of data for the investigation.

The track was also new, but passengers already compained about it. The trains exceeded the speed limit pretty often, this time the train was about 80 km/h faster than the speed limit of 48 km/h (30 mph).

Likely no big investigation needed, just the question why nobody noticed this habit.

 

[jedidia]

this time the train was about 80 km/h faster than the speed limit

Say whaaaaaat? That's outright insane for a train. As in I don't think it's even hyperbole to say that. There's got to be something wrong with your brain if you're driving a train that much over the speed limit! :blink:

 

[Urwumpe]

Say whaaaaaat? That's outright insane for a train. As in I don't think it's even hyperbole to say that. There's got to be something wrong with your brain if you're driving a train that much over the speed limit! :blink:

It could also have technical causes. But yes. Its insane if this happened a few times in the few years of operation already.

 

[Quick_Nick]

The track was also new, but passengers already compained about it. The trains exceeded the speed limit pretty often, this time the train was about 80 km/h faster than the speed limit of 48 km/h (30 mph).

Likely no big investigation needed, just the question why nobody noticed this habit.

The Amtrak train that derailed Monday in Washington state was traveling 80 mph in a 30 mph zone, National Transportation Safety Board board member T. Bella Dinh-Zarr said.

Uhhhhh wow.

2.67 times the speed limit, or 7.1 times the kinetic energy.

At 30mph, even a crash into a wall might not be fatal. At 80mph, how could this *not* happen?!

The reports say that most of the track allows up to 79mph. So did they forget to slow down? Or did they just not want to bother? If this speeding has occurred before, I'm not sure e.g. brake failure is likely.

 

[Urwumpe]

The preceding section of the track had a speed limit of 79 mph (130 km/h), looks like the train did just not slow down for the S-curve crossing the interstate.

---------- Post added at 13:23 ---------- Previous post was at 13:20 ----------

The reports say that most of the track allows up to 79mph. So did they forget to slow down?

Likely that. Maybe they did not see the sign, displays in the train don't show all speed limits. Positive Train Control was again not installed on this track.

---------- Post added at 13:32 ---------- Previous post was at 13:23 ----------

The standards for the displays in the newer Siemens Charger Cab can be seen summarized here:

https://www.uic.org/com/IMG/pdf/090309_UIC_612_presentation.pdf

CCD and ETD are the displays in the cab that show speed limit information.

The UIC 612-05 standard costs $600 for just mere 87 pages. Are they nuts?

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Capitalism at work, Urwumpe.

Also, there is precedent for the accident: look back to 2015 when another Amtrak train derailed by hitting a turn far too fast.

Both crashes occurred in areas without automatic speed control systems. To me, this indicates a dangerous reliance on the automatic safeties instead of maintaining awareness of the train and track conditions.

 

[Urwumpe]

Also, there is precedent for the accident: look back to 2015 when another Amtrak train derailed by hitting a turn far too fast.

Both crashes occurred in areas without automatic speed control systems. To me, this indicates a dangerous reliance on the automatic safeties instead of maintaining awareness of the train and track conditions.

Actually wrong - the positive train control system was deactivated in Philadelphia, resulting in the regulation to make it mandatory to be active in the Northeast corridor for exactly those curves like in the current accident, with more than 20 mph drop in velocity compared to the previous segment.

At a hearing on May 17, 2016, the National Transportation Safety Board reported that the primary cause of the derailment was a loss of situational awareness by the train's operator, likely caused by distracting radio chatter from a nearby SEPTA train that had experienced an emergency situation. Somebody had thrown a rock at the SEPTA train's windshield, causing it to shatter and blind the conductor. This distraction resulted in the operator believing he was further down the track than he was, thus accelerating the train before the curve rather than after it. The board concluded that the accident would have been entirely prevented if the line was equipped with positive train control, which would have recognized and applied the appropriate speed limit, and chairman Christopher A. Hart called on federal railroad regulators to "end this list of PTC preventable fatalities and injuries right now."[51]

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Actually wrong - the positive train control system was deactivated in Philadelphia, resulting in the regulation to make it mandatory to be active in the Northeast corridor for exactly those curves like in the current accident, with more than 20 mph drop in velocity compared to the previous segment.

Which is what I said: They didn't have such systems operational at either accident. Philly, it was offline. Here, it wasn't even installed yet.

Either way, the engineers were seemingly reliant on such systems being present as they are on the rest of the track to catch errors before they caused problems.

 

[Urwumpe]

Either way, the engineers were seemingly reliant on such systems being present as they are on the rest of the track to catch errors before they caused problems.

What else should? In Philadelphia, it was human error, not overspeeding. Here it could be missing the speed limit.

---------- Post added at 18:52 ---------- Previous post was at 18:49 ----------

And I was wrong - I had read about previous complaints about the route, but those seem to be wrong - this train was the first ever to use this route. It was the first public run.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

What else should? In Philadelphia, it was human error, not overspeeding. Here it could be missing the speed limit.

---------- Post added at 18:52 ---------- Previous post was at 18:49 ----------

And I was wrong - I had read about previous complaints about the route, but those seem to be wrong - this train was the first ever to use this route. It was the first public run.

This was the first revenue-generating run with passengers. They had made several dry runs through there before, without issue.

 

[Quick_Nick]

Here, it wasn't even installed yet.

The Seattle Times reports that they just aren't using it yet, but it's technically there and soon (probably even sooner now) to begin use.

"The 14.5-mile corridor is now equipped for positive train control equipment, but the train controls aren’t operating yet in that area, said Amtrak CEO Richard Anderson. An Amtrak spokesman said the equipment was still being tested."

"[...]the congressional mandate on train controls has been delayed until the end of 2018. Lawmakers have also left open the possibility of another delay until 2020."

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...iled-in-washington-has-speed-limit-of-30-mph/

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Randomizer enabled:

Boeing just dropped a heck of a surprise this morning:

http://theaviationist.com/2017/12/1...nned-carrier-aviation-air-system-competition/

After teasing its shape with a mysterious tween that included a photograph of an aircraft under protective cover on Dec. 14, as planned, Boeing has unveiled a better (still, partial) view of its submission to the MQ-25 Stingray unmanned carrier aviation air system competition (UCAAS).

 

[Andy44]

Capitalism at work, Urwumpe.

Amtrak is hardly real capitalism. But it is constantly short on money and under lots of pressure.

Which is what I said: They didn't have such systems operational at either accident. Philly, it was offline. Here, it wasn't even installed yet.

Either way, the engineers were seemingly reliant on such systems being present as they are on the rest of the track to catch errors before they caused problems.

I don't understand this. If the system is not installed, how is the engineer reliant on it?

My guess is that there is a lack of discipline, both here and in the Philly accident. The engineer, as well as those who supervise and train him, is simply not following the rules.

The constant mentioning of PTC in the media reports deflects from this: Lack of PTC or some other technology is not an excuse for accidents by people who should know how to run a railroad without wrecking equipment and killing passengers.

Signals, speed limits, equipment maintenance, and operator discipline, really this is simple 19th Century railroad textbook stuff.

 

[Quick_Nick]

World View, a company that launches large payloads into the stratosphere on giant weather balloons, just experienced a massive balloon rupture. Apparently they've been using hydrogen. Shook my building from 4 miles away. Knocked out ceiling tiles in their neighboring buildings.
No injuries. Just a lot of "what the hell was that?!", especially considering the same location is also a commercial airport and home to a missile manufacturer.

http://tucson.com/news/local/balloo...cle_6a3b5558-e4fc-11e7-b0d3-97f88bb96b88.html

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Amtrak is hardly real capitalism. But it is constantly short on money and under lots of pressure.

Precisely. They lack the money to do what they need to, so they decide to make cuts SOMEWHERE. Inevitably, it seems to be safety set aside in the name of making ends meet.

I don't understand this. If the system is not installed, how is the engineer reliant on it?

It IS present on most of the rest of the run. As such, the engineers very well could have become reliant on it to do their job. Take away that crutch, and accidents happen because they're not used to operating without it.

My guess is that there is a lack of discipline, both here and in the Philly accident. The engineer, as well as those who supervise and train him, is simply not following the rules.

The constant mentioning of PTC in the media reports deflects from this: Lack of PTC or some other technology is not an excuse for accidents by people who should know how to run a railroad without wrecking equipment and killing passengers.

Signals, speed limits, equipment maintenance, and operator discipline, really this is simple 19th Century railroad textbook stuff.

Agreed. Which is why this seeming reliance on the PTC is troubling.

 

[Thunder Chicken]

Entering final semester grades into system in 3....2....1....DONE!

Now to shut off the campus phone and not check my school email for a day or two.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Amtrak is hardly real capitalism. But it is constantly short on money and under lots of pressure.

Upon reviewing the post you quoted, I realize that I didn't make my point clear. The quip about capitalism was in regards to the paywall protecting the documents from Siemens regarding their Charger locomotive. Given the fact that it's a digital document, there is little to prevent someone from simply making multiple copies of the document and distributing them. It wasn't meant to be a overarching statement about the accident.

 

[Andy44]

Precisely. They lack the money to do what they need to, so they decide to make cuts SOMEWHERE. Inevitably, it seems to be safety set aside in the name of making ends meet.

Maybe, maybe not. That's a broad statement that any guy sitting next to you on a bus would say to make himself sound smart in idle conversation.

 

[RisingFury]

After years of talk, Falcon Heavy is finally getting ready:

[ame="https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/943420026593337344"]Elon Musk on Twitter: "Falcon Heavy at the Cape https://t.co/hizfDVsU7X"[/ame]

 

[C3PO]

Nope. More struts. :thumbup: